600W Oil Information

[Kevin in NJ]

The original oil was called 600W. That is not 600 weight. It is a heavy pressure steam oil designed for straight cut gears which is what is in the A. Of course the oils were changed over time and the curent oil if you wish to buy bulk is call 680W depending on brand. You can also contact the guy selling steam oil and get smaller quantities http://steamenginelube.com

Re: Mobile 636 gear oil


Posted by Marco Tahtaras from c-24-4-43-195.hsd1.ca.comcast.net (24.4.43.195) on Saturday, August 09, 2008 at 9:38AM :

In Reply to: Mobile 636 gear oil posted by Bob from ? (64.237.121.113) on Friday, August 08, 2008 at 10:35PM :

Mobil:
Mobilgear 636 (Which has been replaced with MOBILGEAR 600xp 680 11/27/2011)

BP:
Energol GR-XP 680

Castrol:
Castrol Alpha LS680

Shell:
Omala 680

Texaco:
Meropa 680



Here is some more info


Re: 600W Thickness -- One (1) Answer


Read Follow Ups Post Follow Up Model-A Ford Message Board FAQ
Posted by H. L. Chauvin on Nov. 26, 2011 at 16:34:03

In Reply to: Re: 600W Thickness, Transmission Gear Grinding
posted by louis on Nov. 25, 2011 at 17:19:35

Hi Louis,
Your former question made sense when someone new to this Forum reads "all" of the many "different" former 600W discussions in the attached archives.

It appears most "salespersons", (parts suppliers & oil compaies), offer the 1930's 600W substitute, but as Marco noted in the archives in the late 1990's, they are "not" all the same.

Many articles appear on experiences of switching to thicker transmission oil; thus eliminating driver's not experiencing grinding of transmission gears.

Gear oil thickness, (resistance to flow), is measured by several methods.

Kinematic Viscosity per ASTM D445 is one standard method indicating the milimeters squared divided by time in seconds at 40 degrees C, or 104 degrees F, which is closest to trasmission gear oil viscosity after attaining operating temperature.

For example, per ASTM 445, water has low viscosity, honey has high viscosity.

The recommended BP Energol 680, Shell Omala 680, Mobile Extra Helca Super Cylider Oil 680, have ASTM 445 measured viscosities, (40 C), of a high 680; Texaco Mepora 680 indicates a thinner 646; however, Valvoline 85/140W drops down to 395, & Castrol 85/140W is thiner at 369.

One of the "most" scientific test conducted on Ford's 1930 recommended 600W appears to be a gentleman who wrote that he had an old sealed can of
Ford's recommended 600W.

After trying many gear oil substitutes, his highly scientific lab test indicated that the 600W was extremely thick, almost like melted tar, & equal to the above mentioned 680 viscosities.

His test, he dipped his finger in each & watched it flow!

It appears if one uses recommended gear oil with a viscosity of 680, & gears continue to grind, begin looking somewhere else.

Hope this helps 1930's future 600W research.

[Mike V. Florida]

Mobil still makes 600w. Here is something from their website a few years back,

"The Mobil Cylinder Oil brand of lubricants represents the earliest lubricant product marketed by our Corporation's predecessor companies. 600W Cylinder Oil was produced by the Vacuum Oil Company in the second half of the 19th century and was a breakthrough product of its time. Continual upgrading and application of the latest base oil and additive technology has maintained this product series as a leader in its application areas. While steam cylinder applications are now less common, the reputation of Mobil Cylinder Oils in worm gear applications remains unmatched among mineral-based products."

[ant31]

Can the proper Model A gear oil be purchased locally? Is the oil for the trans and differential the same?

[Mitch]

Welcome ant31 to the VFF! Yes both assy's take the same oil along with the steering box. You can purchase it from most jobbers although the recipes may not all be the same. I have had no problem using the oil from Bratton's
https://www.brattons.com/600-w-oil-f...nsmission.html

[DaWizard]

ant31 Hey, WELCOME to the VFF!!

[Tom Rode]

On another Model A site, I recently read a "recipe" to recreate 600W, it used 90W gear oil, STP additive and Wheel Bearing grease in certain proportions, to be mixed with a hand mixer. I have purchase these ingredients and have to look again for the proportions to whip up my "home made 600W".
Any thoughts on this?

[Mitch]

Tom Rode There are all kinds of home brews out there, and most if not all will cause issues of one kind or another. What you read is just one of a thousand. I stand by my post above, or you can look into Kevin in NJ info.
Good luck.

[DaWizard]

On another Model A site, I recently read a "recipe" to recreate 600W, it used 90W gear oil, STP additive and Wheel Bearing grease in certain proportions, to be mixed with a hand mixer. I have purchase these ingredients and have to look again for the proportions to whip up my "home made 600W".
Any thoughts on this?

I used to use STP but since watching a lubricity test online have since stopped using it because of the foaming problem.

[Tom Rode]

Headed to pick up Mobil 600 xp 460 gear oil, based on other suggestions, looks like specs close to original.

urgency is that yesterday took first “long” drive in car, maybe 6-7 miles and air temp 70’s, came home and parked to find puddle, didn’t look like oil, little to thick and black, assume transmission lube, thinned out from heat I suspect, since first run longer than a mile in 30-40 degree temps.
Hope I don’t have a serious problem. Brand new to this. Leading to my next question, can the transmission be removed without removing rear axle or engine?

[Mitch]

can the transmission be removed without removing rear axle or engine?

Nope
Fwiw post all new questions in the Main A forum. These sub areas are mainly for technical reference

[Tom Rode]

Thanks

[Tom Rode]

Anyone know where you can purchase these "680" oils in gallon sizes, I found a petroleum supplier who sells only in 5 gallon cans or 55 gallon drums, I figure I won't use 5 gallons in my lifetime.

Looked online but can't find, there is a source for a synthetic substitute which has these specs but is "food preparation safe" and is $114.00 per gallon, way more than the 5 gallon option. Has anyone had any luck with finding some industry nearby that uses this and may be willing to sell a couple of quarts? I am not sure what industry to look at, maybe tractor service and repair. I used Mobil 600, but sae rating and viscosity aren't what they show on this list, will be draining that when I find correct oil.

Thanks

[Calvin Neely]

Why would you want to spend a lot of time and effort to blend your own gear oil when you can readily buy it in a squeeze bottle from many of the parts suppliers that support this great hobby. Just my thought on the subject.

[plyfor]

I've been following this discussion about "600 wt " for some time and have just rec'd some Maxima modern 250 Wt gear lube from Summit Racing with some other parts. After dropping on a glass plate this lube (see photo) and compared to other lubes on hand, it's comparable to 140 wt in consistency probably due to the additives. The closest to the orig. we drained from a car decades ago (and kept a sample) is the Lubriplate SPO 299 in thickness and color. I suppose the restoration stuff .com offerings may be more easily available, and they offer Lubriplate quarts as well. We've been using Chevron older mineral 140 wt. in other pre Model A classics with yellow or bronze / high zinc content bearings because we depleted the old stuff and have found the following based on an internet chart:
*The Shell Valvata is now OmalaS2G 250 worm gear oil, vendor?
*Chevron meropa W680 or 1000 possibly , available from Petroleum Service Company in Pa., 5 gallon @$102+ $38 to ship across the country, $7/ qt.
*GL2 250 wt.worm gear oil from Lubricating Specialties, S. Ca., parrafin mineral based similar to 1930's oils
*Redline 80-250 , new offering, recommended for Model A/T at $75/ gal only !
If a local A or T club bought a 5 gallon pail,and divided it up, 10 members would
amortize the cost @ 2 qts each., if they wanted to go beyond 140 wt. lube.

[plyfor]

If someone buys a pail or 5 gallon of the Meropa 1000 or 1500, I'll take 2 or 3 qts since I only need it for the rear end. The Lubriplate SPO299 is now $22/ qt !!

[Tom Rode]

Resolution to this: Considerable additional reading led me to realize that the Mobilgear 600 xp lube I purchased and installed was probably not the best choice. After studying up on specs and qualities of different products, and after calling Lubriplate's technical support department, I have ordered Lubriplate SPO-288 gear oil. So next step will be to drain that new Mobilgear oil and flush with kerosene (again) and refill with Lubriplate. Job done!

I am worried that the Mobilgear 600 xp 460 is too light, it is ISO 460 and SAE 140, where the Lubriplate is ISO 680 and SAE 250. Should be lot less gear noise, and better protection.

[plyfor]

If someone buys a pail or 5 gallon of the Meropa 1000 or 1500, I'll take 2 or 3 qts since I only need it for the rear end. The Lubriplate SPO299 is now $22/ qt !!

Just received a gallon of the Meropa 1500 from Restoration stuff. com .They say it's their thickest gear lube that can be poured. The consistency is similar to the original blue bottle or can of STP and more viscous than the MAC's 600 wt. previously posted by using a dropper. It's similar to our older SPO299 but lighter in color, almost yellow amber. My findings are similar to what Dennis and others have reported. Both MAC's and Meropa have no appreciable odor. The Maxima 250 wt. oil has additives, and we'll use in other older applications where yellow metals may not be an issue.

[DaWizard]

What you should do now is drain and rinse a transmission and fill with that, drive around the block and pull the top to see how much foaming occurs and how the shifting is.

[Mitch]

Lubriplate recommends NO.8 as a replacement for the original 600wt. Has anyone researched or tried this out?
See this newsletter tip, which is also published in the Model A tiny tips book page.106
http://www.soonermodela.org/Newslett...MAC_082016.pdf
https://www.lubriplate.com/Products/...ies/NO-8/NO-8/

Scan0264.jpg

[Dennis]

Here you are Wiz ...
https://www.amazon.com/Lubriplate-No...9493788&sr=8-1

[Mitch]

Here you are Wiz ...
https://www.amazon.com/Lubriplate-No...9493788&sr=8-1

Says #8 with a #4 picture and a 90 viscosity vs the 140 for #8. Beware buying that one on Amazon, you may not get what you want.

[DaWizard]

Well, since I don't do Amazon, I have found a local dealer that sells it, and I don't need to buy 5 gallons.

[Dennis]

Says #8 with a #4 picture and a 90 viscosity vs the 140 for #8. Beware buying that one on Amazon, you may not get what you want.

Thanks for catching that Mitch. I should have looked closer at the specs before I sent the link.
So much for that tiny tip.

[Tom Rode]

This is all so confusing, I spoke with technical support at Lubriplate and they recommended using SPO-288 gear oil. I recently purchased it (available in quart bottle) and put it in transmission and rear end of my 1929 A. Was even recommended somewhere online when I was researching as replacement for antique auto transmission and differentials.

[Mitch]

This is all so confusing, I spoke with technical support at Lubriplate and they recommended using SPO-288 gear oil. I recently purchased it (available in quart bottle) and put it in transmission and rear end of my 1929 A. Was even recommended somewhere online when I was researching as replacement for antique auto transmission and differentials.

I agree and it has been this way as long as I can remember. That is why we use Bratton's 600W and never had any trouble. Seems easy