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  • Rear Axle Threads

    Stripped Rear Axle Threads!
    the last post has more related thread links.


    As you may remember, I buggered up the threads on my rear axles ( yes both of them, I'm stubborn) using the cheap puller sold by all the venders. For those that suggested putting the nut back on, that wont work with this puller as the axle goes up inside the puller. I have chased the threads and now new castellated nuts will go on but I can feel about .001 inch looseness when I rock the nut back & forth. The nut in the photo is from automotive racing products (ARP) It has 4-5 more threads than the original nut. Jim Brierley (4-bangers! and me) uses a smaller version of these nuts on his connecting rods for the same reason, more threads. ( I hope he is reading this) My question is should I use a star washer or any type of lock washer with these nuts? The shoulder on this nut matches up to the hub washer very nicely. I am working on modifying the hub caps on the rear so they screw on/off so that I can monitor the torque until I gain confidence in the nuts. Someone mentioned that the axel threads were a special class, That's beyond my pay grade but maybe talking about thread angle or something. If that is the case then I have already screwed that up but may help someone else in the future. Any thoughts good or bad? Bob carolinamudwalker
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  • #2
    Does the flange on the nut rest on the metal face of the hub the same way a washer would? It's hard to tell the circumference size in the pic
    3 ~ Tudor's
    Henry Ford said
    "It's all nuts and bolts"


    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

    Comment


    • Mitch
      Mitch commented
      Editing a comment
      If so i would not use a washer, this way you have the nut on more of the threads

  • #3
    I too would skip the washer. I would use the white out pens from Dollar Tree to put a white dot on the nut, and a dot on the hub, to see if the nut moves.

    Those pens are 2 for $1 and have a small ball bearing tip to dispense a very quick drying white paint.
    These are ideal for marking wires, and a timing mark on the pulley edge, so you know when TDC is coming up.

    Comment


    • #4
      Hey Bob, I feel your pain. One thing I am wondering is, do you have access to a mill or similar sturdy piece of machinery? The reason I ask is, that appears to be a Grade 8 nut, and what I would do is place the steel washer and nut on the axle, torque until you feel the threads begin to give, then mark where the cotter pin hole is on the nut and either machine a slot just past the mark so you have just a wee bit more turn to get it lined up, or perhaps drill a hole through the nut to do the same thing.

      IF you can get a torque reading at that thread stretch, it would give you a base for reference when you check the next time. Since you are not removing any more thread from that nut, it should hold pretty good and installing the cotter pin should help insure it stays tight.

      Just my 2¢ worth.
      You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

      Comment


      • #5
        Have used arp nuts mostly with good success, but many suggest only use them for 1 time application ,not re-use. Also, can you drill a small hole to place a cotter, for added insurance as in post 4? The steel washer helps with the gasket placement as stated.

        Comment


        • #6
          ARP nuts and bolts are an even better alloy than grade 8, they told me equivalent to grade 13 if that even existed. I doubt you will be able to drill it. Even grade 8 is very tough to drill. As far as re-using, in this application that is not a worry. The ARP stuff is rugged as can be. The re-use issue is because racers usually prefer to not re-use rod nuts for obvious reasons. ARP does after all stand for Automotive Racing Products.

          Tom Wesenberg had posted about a thread repair product here, made by Loctite. I couldn't find that one, but found an equivalent product made by Permatex, PN 765-1248, and got it off Amazon. Have not needed it yet. When I researched the product on-line at their website, it said it was good to 120 ft-lbs. I'd clean the daylights out of the male and female threads with lacquer thinner as a prep. Never paint thinner (mineral spirits) as it leave an oily residue. There is no mechanical operation on a car where paint thinner is appropriate.

          Maybe Tom can chime in again here.

          I like the idea of using more threads, Jim Brierley is pretty sharp, and is a racer himself as you know. If you are as close as .001, and are using more threads, and maybe try the thread repair epoxy, and use blue Loctite, and mark the torqued assembly with the white marking pen as suggested (we use those pens here like crazy) so you can monitor if it is loosening, then I think you have done all you can.

          If all the vendors are selling this same puller, where you cannot put the nut on backwards, then that is a whole separate issue. They are very inadequate for the job, and a lot of people are gonna have the same problem. Some clubs have the correct puller that they loan out.

          Some owners have turned the damaged threads down to 9/16. That is not easy to do at all, and I am not really fond of the idea, because these threads should have been 3/4" in the first place, which is the size used by competing cars of the era and beyond

          Good luck

          Comment


          • #7
            Mitch, and Tom: Yes the nut face is the same diameter as the hub face and I am inclined not to use a washer. Dawizara and Plyfor: I will take a look at the possibility of notching the end of the nut for a roll pin. or a cotter pin. I wont know until I start putting things back together. right now all 8 shoes are off being relined, but that's another post. TbirdTbird, Dave always good to hear from you. I will look up the Permatex product. Do you think the original JB weld with steel in the threads as I tourq the nuts down would be overkill? I am with you 9/16 is going too small. Ill post a follow up as put things back together carolinamudwalker

            Comment


            • tbirdtbird
              tbirdtbird commented
              Editing a comment
              Bob, is that you?
              in this shop for whatever reason, JB weld never did anything it was supposed to, we gave up on it. If I used anything it would be the Loctite or Permatex high-grade epoxy that Tom W put us onto, it was made for the purpose. I would look up the instruction sheet on-line first before buying it. The kit I bought was only 20 bucks. You are not bonding the 2 threads together, you are filling in empty space. One side gets a release agent. I'd still use blue Loctite because you can never hurt anything with that product, you have nothing to lose. I have no personal use with these products, only going on what Tom W said a while back. Keep us posted, you are in uncharted waters....unfortunately

          • #8
            Don't use the washer or anything on the threads
            my 1/2 cent
            3 ~ Tudor's
            Henry Ford said
            "It's all nuts and bolts"


            Mitch's Auto Service ctr

            Comment


            • #9
              Dave pretty well said what I would have posted. I seem to recall the product I used was a Loctite product made to repair stripped threads. The mirror on my 1960 BMW R-60 had stripped threads where it screwed into the aluminum housing for the hand clutch. It worked fine for my purpose, but the axle threads take a lot more torque. Other guys have said they did the 9/16" repair and it worked for them, so I'd give it a try, but I'd stop at 100 foot pounds torque. I'd most likely use a bit of liquid thread lock rather than drill the nut and loose some thread. I guess since the thread of a drilled nut would be over the hole already in the axle, it isn't adding to the grip anyway, so go with your choice. As Dave said, to drill a super hard nut could be a tough job.

              Comment


              • #10
                Originally posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
                I too would skip the washer. I would use the white out pens from Dollar Tree to put a white dot on the nut, and a dot on the hub, to see if the nut moves.

                Those pens are 2 for $1 and have a small ball bearing tip to dispense a very quick drying white paint.
                These are ideal for marking wires, and a timing mark on the pulley edge, so you know when TDC is coming up.
                Update, I bought two white out pens for a dollar a month ago, and now they doubled the price, because you only get one on the card for a dollar.

                Comment


                • #11
                  Update: My turned down axle @ 9/16 is still holding the wheel on at 600 miles so far.

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    More related Stripped axle threads

                    ARP Nut # ARP 300-8329


                    https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...r-axle-threads

                    https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...eads-revisited

                    https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...-one-more-time
                    3 ~ Tudor's
                    Henry Ford said
                    "It's all nuts and bolts"


                    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      How axle threads get damaged
                      One way that axle threads get damaged in the first place:

                      Rear axle: First ½ inch of threads stripped-

                      Here is One cause of this ...
                      For the benefit of others who may not know this:

                      One cause of stripped
                      axle threads is described below:

                      It is common to see the first 1/2 inch of
                      axle threads stripped.

                      I hear folks telling people that this is the way to remove rear brake drums...


                      this method only damages the axle threads.

                      One thing that causes the damage is that some one loosens the castle
                      axle nut a couple of turns and hammers on the nut in an attempt to remove the hub/brake drum instead of using the correct tool.

                      As the
                      axle nut is hammered the "castle nut" is deformed on top.

                      1. Now when the nut is threaded on the next
                      axle shaft, the nut threads on 1/2 way then binds up when the smashed part of the nut starts to thread on the shaft.

                      2. Some folks do not stop at this point ... they just use a longer wrench to force the damaged nut on ... stripping the first 1/2 inch of the AXLE threads.


                      This is a good reason to avoid the use of an impact wrench to tighten things.
                      So if you find a nut that goes on nice 1/2 way then binds up, STOP and find a nut that is not damaged and destroy the damaged nut.

                      NOTE: (If you must use the "hammer on the
                      axle nut" method then remove the nut, turn it around and thread it on with the "castle" toward the inside.)

                      This practice STILL DAMAGES the axle threads ... just not a bad as has the first method.

                      I wonder how many times someone drops an axle nut and it rolls under the bench.

                      "Oh I have one in the can over there".
                      If someone has hammered on this nut and you force it on the axle with a long pipe or impact wrench then the first 1/2 inch of threads on the axle will be damaged.

                      Over the last 59 years I have seen MANY axles in the parts piles with this damage!



                      The same thing applies to camshaft gear removal only there is no castle nut involved the threads are still damaged by hammering on the nut.

                      Comment

                      Related Topics

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                      • carolinamudwalker
                        Rear axle threads revisited
                        by carolinamudwalker
                        As you may remember, I buggered up the threads on my rear axles ( yes both of them, I'm stubborn) using the cheap puller sold by all the venders. For those that suggested putting the nut back on, that wont work with this puller as the axle goes up inside the puller. I have chased the threads and now new castellated nuts will go on but I can feel about .001 inch looseness when I rock the nut back...
                        You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                        This gallery has 1 photos.
                        11-09-2017, 10:34 AM
                      • carolinamudwalker
                        Rear axle
                        by carolinamudwalker
                        Now I have done it. Pulled rear drums with the cheapo puller and buggered up the axel threads. I have chased the threads and the nut goes back on but is loose. I am worried that the nut will not hold the 120 pounds of torque. I will order new nuts, but I am wondering if I could use something like lock tight red to be safe. Planning on driving to Branson from coast of N.C. 2200 miles round trip....
                        11-01-2017, 08:41 AM
                      • benson
                        Have you ever seen a rear axle with the first 1/2 inch of threads that are stripped?
                        by benson
                        Did you wonder how that happens?


                        How axle threads get damaged
                        One way that axle threads get damaged in the first place:

                        Rear axle: First ½ inch of threads stripped-

                        Here is One cause of this ...
                        For the benefit of others who may not know this:

                        One cause of stripped
                        axle threads is described below:

                        It is common to see the
                        ...
                        01-26-2020, 04:34 PM
                      • Beauford
                        L/R Axle threads
                        by Beauford
                        So all the switching, torquing and pulling hubs these threads decided to give. With the washer on the nut won't bite. Washer off she bites to 100lbs. I have a chaser ordered and some of those ARP nuts. I am hoping the chaser will work as the threads are still there. I'm not set up to redo a whole rear end as I'm not replacing one axle and not go through the whole thing.
                        01-01-2018, 07:25 PM
                      • wrndln
                        Axle threads probably stripped
                        by wrndln
                        When attempting to remove the nut on one side of the axle on one of my vehicles, the nut just spins indicating the threads are stripped. I think I may be able to insert a screwdriver between the nut and the hub and get it off - I hope. My question is: Is there a good repair for stripped axle threads or is the axle a gonner? I am assuming the axle is otherwise in good condition, but I can't tell...
                        10-17-2019, 05:19 PM
                      • carolinamudwalker
                        Rear axel, one more time
                        by carolinamudwalker
                        Ok Mitch, and everybody, Photo on far left is without using original washer but the ARP nut has the same diameter as the washer. Also there is room for cotter pin. Photo on far right is using the washer but no room for cotter pin. Both ways are using all the threads of the ARP nut. Photo #3 shows the rear puller that caused all my grief on the left. On the right is a work of art made by Mitchel...
                        You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                        This gallery has 4 photos.
                        11-22-2017, 10:29 AM
                      • Great Lakes Greg
                        Spring perch threads.
                        by Great Lakes Greg
                        The nut fought the entire way off this perch. Is there a way to save these threads?
                        You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                        This gallery has 1 photos.
                        11-02-2020, 08:51 PM
                      • conaway2
                        Worn rear axle threads
                        by conaway2
                        I’m sure this is a common issue - how do you deal with worn rear axle threads ? The rear axle on my car is original, and I can just imagine how many times the axle nut has been removed and tightened. Although the threads aren’t stripped, I’m pretty careful now when I tighten the nut.

                        At some point, it will be a problem. Is the most obvious repair re-tapping the threads to a slightly...
                        10-01-2020, 01:39 PM
                      • lpl87
                        Lug Nut washers
                        by lpl87
                        Are the lug nut washers good to use to keep painted rims looking good ??
                        10-05-2017, 02:40 PM
                      • Beauford
                        Spring Perch
                        by Beauford
                        Never really thought about my front spring perches too much when building my car until I saw a thread here on them. I know they were in good shape in the beginning as theres not much to them. I went under and noticed one of the special castle nuts was really bad..like some of the nut was missing on the backside. So ordered two new special nuts. While I wait I decided I should remove the nut. The nut...
                        09-22-2018, 02:14 PM
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