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  • Brake Information & Adjustment Procedure

    Brake Adjustment Procedure:



    I've noticed posts about sticking brake pedals and poor brakes. If the brake rods are not set up correctly , the brakes will be poor even if all parts are new . Here is how I do mine . I first adjust the brake adjustment wedges at each wheel with the brake rods disconnected at the clevis end . I start by adjusting the wedges at the rear wheels . Because of the design of the rear wheel bearings and bearing races, wear will effect rear brake adjustment . In other words if the rear brakes are adjusted with the rear axle on stands the brakes will often be WAY TOO tight with the wheels on the road . I first adjust the rear wheel brakes with the wheels on the shop floor where the wheels support the weight of the car with all brake rods disconnected . It is important that the tires are fully inflated so that they can roll easily with less resistance . The average guy should have the strength to slightly roll the car by the back bumper , back and forth to feel the drag when the rear adjustment wedges are tightened . When the desired drag is obtained ,iback off the adjustment as needed . I then proceed to the front brake adjustment with the front axle on stands . If all is good the front brake levers should lean foward about fifteen degrees. Sometimes brake pills-shims may be needed at the front lower brake wedges to obtain the foward lean on the front brake levers . I then proceed to the service brake cross shaft and pedal set up .It has often been said that the levers on the cross shaft should point straight up and down . To acheive this adjustment the plunger end of the pedal rod , where it meets the brake light switch should be within 1/16 inch from the inner rear of the center crossmember on 30-31 models where the brake light switch attaches . The brake light switch mounts in a different place on 28-29 models but the plunger on the pedal shaft should have the same1/16 inch clearance between the plunger and the inner rear side of the center crossmember . I now proceed to adjust the clevis on the pedal rod so that the pedal will be at the top of its travel , now prop the pedal up in place . I then adjust the clevis at the end of the service brake rods so that the clevis pins will just penetrate through the brake rod clevices and the brake levers . The levers need to be pulled backwards on the front levers and foward on the rear levers to remove ALL slack when the clevice pins are installed . When the brake rods , brake pedal and service brake cross shaft is set up in this manner with all slack adjusted out , the brake lining will be ready to meet the drum with the slightest depression of the brake pedal for best brakes. The early 28s before separate emergency brakes were added were different . The early brake rods were not adjustable and were made to a specific length that doesn't apply to the later model A brakes .


    By Jim Mason:

    Good article in tech section. I'd like to add one correction, the brake rods on the VE and early vehicles were adjustable. the non adjustable rods were used May to Nov
    3 ~ Tudor's
    Henry Ford said
    "It's all nuts and bolts"


    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

  • #2
    Resurfacing Brake Drums Info!


    I have an ammco 4000 brake lathe,
    resurfacing / truing the front drums is no problem as the 1" arbor and standard race adapters work beautiful. The issue is the rear drums as the 1" arbor will not slide through the end of the hub because it has a 3/4" opening. After doing a little research i found that ammco sells an 11/16th" arbor which comes with all needed accy's. This setup will adapt to any ammco Models 2002, 3000, 4000, 4100, 7000, 7700 brake lathes. So for anyone looking to be able to do the rear drums a brake doktor is not needed. these ammco machines are easily available used and for good prices. Just thought i would post this info as i hope it can help.
    The part # for the kit is 9708 and i found the cheapest place to buy it from with free shipping, and dropped shipped from ammco, so it only took a few days to get


    IMG_6201.JPGIMG_6202.JPGIMG_6203.JPG
    Attached Files
    3 ~ Tudor's
    Henry Ford said
    "It's all nuts and bolts"


    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

    Comment


    • BILL WILLIAMSON
      BILL WILLIAMSON commented
      Editing a comment
      WAAAH, I only had a piddly AMCO 2000, but it had the adaptor you show. I made lots of $$$$$s with it, doing drop off DRUMS/ROTORS.
      Dad Poor

    • Mike
      Mike commented
      Editing a comment
      Mitch good to know you have the machine that can cut rear drums. Some of the new cast iron drums need to have 1 more finish cut.
      mike

    • Tom Wesenberg
      Tom Wesenberg commented
      Editing a comment
      When I did the brakes on my 62 Chevy I was able to turn the drums on my 12" Atlas lathe. I remember using an Ammco at the GM dealership I worked at in the 70's, and it was a nice machine. A few times I'd hit hard spots in the drums. I'm not sure what caused them, but they sure needed a sharp new carbide to clean them up.

    • tbirdtbird
      tbirdtbird commented
      Editing a comment
      I've noticed hard spots in just about any metal I have ever worked with. I just had to machine a billet (2x2x12) of 1045 Tool steel to make a brake arm for my '47 Stude M5 project and was a little surprised that it too had hard spots. I guess no alloy is totally uniform

    • Mitch
      Mitch commented
      Editing a comment
      Hard spots or glazed spots in the drum. These are caused by excessive heat that brings about metallurgical changes in the metal. Hard spots can be identified by raised or discolored patches on the drum friction surface. Hard spots can cause chatter, pedal pulsation and grabbing when the brakes are applied.

    • BILL WILLIAMSON
      BILL WILLIAMSON commented
      Editing a comment
      SOME lathes have a GRINDING attachment, that does well on HARD spots.
      OH, spade the GRINDINGS/CUTTINGS around your ROSES & you can SHOW your blossoms (REALLY!)
      Dad Hortiguru

    • Terry, NJ
      Terry, NJ commented
      Editing a comment
      As a machinist apprentice, I was taught that in steelmaking a lot of scrap is used and there's no attempt to sort it by type. In other word when a car, refrigerator, washing machine, what have you, it all goes in the crucible and gets melted together. Consider what's swimming in the mix! HRS, CRS, forgings bearings and yeah, this does cause hard spots that glaze tools. No amount of annealing or "Normalizing" will eliminate this because the steels are of a different composition. They are in their softest state. Another reason why welders and machinists say the old stuff is better to work with. It hasn't been through the foundry yet.
      Terry

  • #3
    Check the Articles Forum for the Evolution of the Model A Brake Shoe

    https://www.vintagefordforum.com/art...teve-c-plucker
    3 ~ Tudor's
    Henry Ford said
    "It's all nuts and bolts"


    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

    Comment


    • #4
      Brake Operating Wedge Cross Section

      Provided By Brent Terry


      brake.jpg
      3 ~ Tudor's
      Henry Ford said
      "It's all nuts and bolts"


      Mitch's Auto Service ctr

      Comment


      • #5
        Brake Floater Discussions:

        https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...hurts-the-most

        https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...brake-floaters

        https://www.vintagefordforum.com/forum/model-a/76413-floaters
        3 ~ Tudor's
        Henry Ford said
        "It's all nuts and bolts"


        Mitch's Auto Service ctr

        Comment


        • #6
          Rear Brake Assembly



          F98470E4-ECB7-478B-B240-D0F61FC78463.jpeg18CFCF29-2535-4586-8EC9-89E0AF0103B9.jpeg





          0EE2CD70-302B-40A5-9D54-7E2EEE99B77F.jpeg




          3 ~ Tudor's
          Henry Ford said
          "It's all nuts and bolts"


          Mitch's Auto Service ctr

          Comment


          • Beauford
            Beauford commented
            Editing a comment
            Looks too clean...I don't trust it. LOL

          • EarlyBert
            EarlyBert commented
            Editing a comment
            Oh my! That's *****.

        • #7
          Front Brake Assembly


          AE329164-D8C2-439B-A962-86927321C9EA.jpeg542A0050-282F-458D-9196-CFDC978AB6A9.jpegA5B9DE6B-D96D-4165-9E2C-E2528206105C.jpeg
          3 ~ Tudor's
          Henry Ford said
          "It's all nuts and bolts"


          Mitch's Auto Service ctr

          Comment


          • #8
            Front operating pin felt positioning


            7BEB5660-5E37-40A1-9FDB-E7E2E024E51C.jpeg

            3 ~ Tudor's
            Henry Ford said
            "It's all nuts and bolts"


            Mitch's Auto Service ctr

            Comment


            • #9
              With the goal of have fully functioning, safe brakes, how we achieve that is subject to different approaches. I'd like to add mine.

              With the brake rods disconnected , car off the ground, set the brake pedal & rod to cross shaft so the shaft is vertical.

              At this point screw the brake adjusting wedges in to a point where all four wheels are locked. Now adjust and install the brake rods. (I prefer to use hitch pins at this point)
              Now I adjust the brake/ wheel drag. (After 80 years of brake service there may be any issue with adjusting the rear brakes off the ground, but at 70 I'm not sure I need to be pushing a car.)

              Lower the car and road test to make any minor adjustments. Finished, install correct cotter pins.

              Sometimes a car will pull slightly. Using hitch pins, remove the pins from the front bakes and CAREFULLY road test. Now reverse, install the front hitch pins and remove the rears and again CAREFULLY road test. This method will quickly determine which brake is the problem ( Thanks to Don Turley for sharing this last suggestion.)

              Hope some find this helpful, JB





              Comment


              • Mitch
                Mitch commented
                Editing a comment
                So when you mention car off the ground, you mean supported under the axles not the frame correct?

              • BNCHIEF
                BNCHIEF commented
                Editing a comment
                JB that advice from Don Turley makes a lot of sense thanks.

            • #10
              With all the paint fumes in my garage, everything levitates........

              Comment


              • Mitch
                Mitch commented
                Editing a comment
                I also use the hair pins clips for temporary use when setting up the adjustments

            • #11
              Referring to my picture, 'What are hair pins ??'

              Comment


              • #12
                Originally posted by JB-OB View Post
                Referring to my picture, 'What are hair pins ??'
                3 ~ Tudor's
                Henry Ford said
                "It's all nuts and bolts"


                Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                Comment


                • #13
                  Grinding a 15 degree chamfer about 1/4" in on the front brake shoe diameters allow easier assembly of the drums before adjustments.

                  Larry Jenkins
                  ____________________
                  Good enough.. Isn't.

                  Comment


                  • #14
                    Brake parts list:


                    27744FD1-8071-4E06-8EC0-50BFDC264C69.jpeg
                    3 ~ Tudor's
                    Henry Ford said
                    "It's all nuts and bolts"


                    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                    Comment


                    • #15
                      I use a heat gun to help with final adjustment. I try not to use the brakes and drive where there is no traffic, then stop and check the temp at each wheel. Of course if one drum is getting much hotter it could indicate a problem and its back to the shop.

                      Comment


                      • #16
                        AA Brake Pictures

                        Here's some pictures of the rear brakes.

                        Bob

                        Comment


                        • #17
                          Originally posted by JB-OB View Post
                          With the goal of have fully functioning, safe brakes, how we achieve that is subject to different approaches. I'd like to add mine.

                          With the brake rods disconnected , car off the ground, set the brake pedal & rod to cross shaft so the shaft is vertical.

                          At this point screw the brake adjusting wedges in to a point where all four wheels are locked. Now adjust and install the brake rods. (I prefer to use hitch pins at this point)
                          Now I adjust the brake/ wheel drag. (After 80 years of brake service there may be any issue with adjusting the rear brakes off the ground, but at 70 I'm not sure I need to be pushing a car.)

                          Lower the car and road test to make any minor adjustments. Finished, install correct cotter pins.

                          Sometimes a car will pull slightly. Using hitch pins, remove the pins from the front bakes and CAREFULLY road test. Now reverse, install the front hitch pins and remove the rears and again CAREFULLY road test. This method will quickly determine which brake is the problem ( Thanks to Don Turley for sharing this last suggestion.)
                          I am in the process of restoring brakes. Service Brake cross shaft restored with new one piece bushings, all backing plates restored, roller tracks rebuilt etc. All brake clevis and eyes are tight. Service Brake adjusted so that rod is 1/16" off of the center cross shaft, which places all of the service brake arms straight up & down.

                          So now I'm to the point of brake adjustment and I'm a bit confused. Les Andrews book says to adjust all brake rods to the same length. So I did that as a starting point. But when I went to hook up to the front arms, it would have pulled the levers back and I would have lost a lot of travel of the wedge. That didn't make sense, so I lengthened the arms and pulled the brake levers to the point that the wedge just begins to move. Then I read the above post, which suggests screwing the adjusting cone in until the brakes locked, and then adjust the brake rods. But if the brakes are already locked, what am I adjusting? Seems like a step is missing in the above procedure. After screwing in the cones till the brakes lock, do you back off until they don't rub and then adjust the brake rod lengths ?

                          Comment


                          • Mitch
                            Mitch commented
                            Editing a comment
                            First off when doing any brake adjustments make sure the vehicle is supported under the axles and not the frame..

                            Disregard any les andrews info on this area..,See this tech thread of corrections that we assembled

                            https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...-andrews-books

                            With the rods disconnected the front levers should be approx 15 degrees forward. Pull back on the levers to remove any loose slop without actually energizing the brake components and adjust your rods to that position. ( this is just to take out any dead loose freeplay)

                            Once that is set adjust your brakes using the adjustment wedge at the backing plates.

                          • Mitch
                            Mitch commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Once the center cross shaft is vertical, screw in the backing plate adjusters in to lock the wheels. You just adjusted any free play from the brakes inside the drums.

                            Now adjust & attach the brake rods to all four levers.

                            Now back off the adjusters until the wheels spin with minimal drag.

                            Deep breath … road test for final brake adjustment.

                            Posted For Jim Brand JB

                        • #18
                          When I adjust brakes, I start with the cross shaft at vertical, the wheel pivots at 15º± forward on front and 15º± to rear on rears. I then set the rod length to reach between. The fronts I did last weekend had the front arms at 18º both sides. No complaint driving it back to member.

                          Now, with adjusters, axles off ground and supported on stands, I tighten the adjusters to stop wheel, then back off 2 clicks. This should give you sufficient brakes to stop. Now, I use a thermometer/temp gun to final adjust the brakes. I usually drive around the block a couple times, braking as well as the skid test to insure they will lock up. I adjust the brakes using the temp gun by 1 click at a time, depending on the temp differences. My adjustments usually run about 20º until I get them closer.

                          Sorry, I don't use a stick or any such thing to adjust the brakes.
                          You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

                          Comment


                          • #19
                            Thanks Mitch, DaWizard. That makes so much more sense. And thanks for the updates to the Les Andrews book. Much appreciated.

                            Comment


                            • #20
                              Drilling Brake Lining for Rivets

                              Original Thread


                              I needed to drill countersunk holes for the parking brakes, so I used my Dremel to make a stepped drill bit. The small size is the rivet shaft diameter, and the large part is the rivet head diameter. I clamp the lining to the band, then use the drill bit to drill from the backside of the band through the lining. Now I have the guide hole for the stepped bit to do the countersink. I set the drill bit stop to limit the depth of the countersink. I start at the center and work towards the ends.

                              Brake Lining Drill.JPG
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                              • #21
                                Brake pin info!

                                Original thread

                                Well the NOS pins are supposed to be 7.25" or so. You can see the comparison I did between NOS originals and repro here http://www.cabriolet.piklefactory.com/brakeparts.htm

                                Comment


                                • #22

                                  The E~Brake Band has an in and an out


                                  Original Thread


                                  Parking Brake 1.JPGParking Brake 2.JPG

                                  Also be sure the correct side of the parking brake band is against the carrier. Where the toggles connect should be the part that is furthest from the band. I'll see if I can find my picture of it. The bottom side in both pictures must lay against the carrier.
                                  Attached Files

                                  Comment


                                  • #23
                                    E-Brake Lever Return Spring Install


                                    174F6DB2-4D25-48DB-9075-02742B165121.jpeg3AFA9A19-39DE-4212-B127-B13236E76804.jpeg
                                    3 ~ Tudor's
                                    Henry Ford said
                                    "It's all nuts and bolts"


                                    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                                    Comment


                                    • Mitch
                                      Mitch commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      I use a zip tie to pull them onto the lever. Then razor blade it off

                                    • BNCHIEF
                                      BNCHIEF commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      Mitch i found a little trick similar to what you do but I take a piece of mechanics wire and make a loop put it on the hook of the spring and use a pair of needle nose vice grips pull it down and use needle nose pliers or whatever to push the hook of the spring over the lever then snip the wire off works real well from the bottom of the car.

                                  • #24
                                    E-Brake Lever Return Spring Install


                                    Now to install the *&%$*()) Emergency Brake Springs!!
                                    After help from Mitch showing Les Andrews technique... I decided to build a wire hook pull tool and take a shot. Pictures show shape of spring for Passenger side, Spring with chalk on it so you can see where it seats - against the service brake boss.
                                    Picture of the tool, and the spring installed on the emergency brake arm. I disconnected the “C” lever on the Emergency brake band, so the arm would travel back toward the axle.
                                    I used a stout large flat blade screwdriver to pry the loop up over the lock bolt on the arm, then reached through the wishbones from the front, grabbed the hook, and pulled it past the arm. I also used the screwdriver to push the spring hook back over the arm and then release it.
                                    Next step: install the wheels and tires - and adjust the e-brake and the Service brakes.



                                    21F1DAA6-D66A-4E8A-9CCB-F985D62605F4.jpeg863DA3F7-CC7A-4836-8D18-C9A876A8CD42.jpegF240F0D3-C613-40F3-AD71-BEE3455EF431.jpeg97BD9A0F-C724-4102-94CA-A7DDDE76E1BB.jpeg
                                    Attached Files

                                    Comment


                                    • #25
                                      Backyard Brake Arching.

                                      https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...5-arcing-shoes

                                      Hey whatever works
                                      3 ~ Tudor's
                                      Henry Ford said
                                      "It's all nuts and bolts"


                                      Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                                      Comment

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