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2 Tooth Steering Box Fixes, Adjustments & Worm Gear Install

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  • 2 Tooth Steering Box Fixes, Adjustments & Worm Gear Install

    installing a worm on a two tooth steering box shaft can prove to be a challenge. i usually tap the end of the steering shaft to 5/8 NC (no drilling necessary as the shafts accepts the tap as is) then use a 5/8th grade 8 bolt, flat and lock washer to press the worm on. i had to tap additional threads onto the shoulder of the bolt approx 1/2" to accommodate the nut. it works great and to pull it off i use my snap-on bearing puller...this puller is part of a much bigger set i have to remove Model A drums, trans bearings, axle bearings and much more..

    FullSizeRender (2).jpg

    FullSizeRender (1).jpg

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    3 ~ Tudor's
    Henry Ford said
    "It's all nuts and bolts"


    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

  • #2
    dunno how you figured this out, but it sure works great!
    an addition for the tech section?

    Comment


    • #3
      I have been asked alot about the special drain plug washer i use to seal the sector adjustment screw... i buy these from the wagon lady who supplies my shop w/ misc bullshit. After getting so many requests for them and not knowing any part numbers etc i asked her about them... it is a dorman product part number 097-025...or. 65274..

      I pay .50 each through her but doing a quick search amazon has them with free shipping for $5 quantity 2 or one can maybe go to their local parts jobber and find it...try a google search..
      Dorman 65274 Metal/Rubber Oil Drain Plug Gasket, Pack of 2 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00062YSF0..._z3hWyb05YCSP1

      They work great and are undetectable once installed....

      Hope this helps out..



      image_372.jpg


      A leaking box
      E4D46146-2208-4C63-B5F8-D635B042BA9A.jpeg80FBEB6A-323F-4B38-BC84-6451310EE092.jpeg



      Washer installed


      CEEFD84C-57F8-497E-A6FF-EE294C8E4F6C.jpeg
      3 ~ Tudor's
      Henry Ford said
      "It's all nuts and bolts"


      Mitch's Auto Service ctr

      Comment


      • #4
        2 tooth diagram, upper bushing 29-mid. 30, upper bushing mid. 30 to end of prod.
        You do not have permission to view this gallery.
        This gallery has 3 photos.
        Last edited by pAAt; 08-28-2017, 11:03 PM.
        Model A's and of course the famous AA's

        Comment


        • #5
          Service Bulletins

          Scan0380.jpgScan0381.jpgScan0382.jpgScan0383.jpgScan0384.jpgScan0385.jpg
          3 ~ Tudor's
          Henry Ford said
          "It's all nuts and bolts"


          Mitch's Auto Service ctr

          Comment


          • #6
            Good information and thanks for posting that Mitch. Too bad the 7 tooth has little adjustment. There was a good reason to stop making it.

            Comment


            • #7
              2-Tooth Steering Gear Specifications

              Turning Radius 17' (34' diameter)

              Steering Gear Ratio 1930-31, 13:1

              Steering Wheel Diameter 1930-31, 17"

              Pitman Arm Length 6-7/8" hole center to ball center

              Ball End Angle to Shaft 14°

              Sector Shaft Bearing Clearance .001"-.002"
              3 ~ Tudor's
              Henry Ford said
              "It's all nuts and bolts"


              Mitch's Auto Service ctr

              Comment


              • #8
                Oil Type & Another Resource Link:


                600W for lube and follow this
                http://modelaclub.com/archives/tech-tips/981


                A Related Steering Gear Oil Thread:

                https://www.vintagefordforum.com/forum/model-a/51240-steering-box-lube-question

                Comment


                • #9
                  Bearing Alert

                  Original Thread


                  It’s recommended that when you rebuild a component being a diff, trans, steering box etc, to always replace the bearings with a good quality roller. Here is an article taken from the last issue of the Model A News illustrating one way it can come back to bite you. Bearings are reasonable for any component and part of the job

                  732491D2-103F-4366-83D1-39F88AF1CADF.jpeg

                  Courtesy of Marco Tahtaras
                  image_39333.jpg
                  Attached Files
                  3 ~ Tudor's
                  Henry Ford said
                  "It's all nuts and bolts"


                  Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    modelabasics.com



                    082EA65C-007A-48FC-9678-52B30C94D1A3.jpegE3116F60-CC36-40A1-A6B7-29D89EE89741.jpeg63589297-6D01-42FD-820A-6D03868BC546.jpegE2688FA6-70D9-426C-ACF1-B5492999FC81.jpeg
                    3 ~ Tudor's
                    Henry Ford said
                    "It's all nuts and bolts"


                    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Rebuilding the Gemmer Steering Box

                      by Bob Carabbio, Highland Village TX

                      Editor's Note:
                      This is not intended to be a step-by-step rebuilding guide. It supplements the assembly and adjustment procedures found in the February 1929 Ford Service bulletins (readily available). This also isn't intended for those anxious to slap together their steering and "wander" on down the road. It is however intended for those stubborn few that are determined to experience the Model "A" as it once was. Bob has included a couple of modifications that may slightly enhance the quality of the steering, but will be detrimental if not done properly as Bob describes.
                      Introduction
                      I've now done two boxes recently, each of which needed considerable tooth dressing on the sector to achieve good mesh - i.e. a significant amount of tooth contact with the worm. In my box, the sector shaft was junk so I replaced it with a swap-meet unit, and had to do quite a bit of tailoring to get it to mate correctly.

                      Steering Shaft Inspection
                      Make sure you check for a bent steering shaft by rotating the shaft without the column in place. If the center of the shaft moves in a circle, then there's a bend which should be corrected. If the shaft is bent, it will destroy the bearing race on the worm, and play havoc with the gear mesh.

                      Reading between the lines, the last one I saw that wobbled that way was from a car that had body damage commensurate with a fairly hard accident on the passenger's side front. My guess is that the steering column and the steering shaft were both bent in the accident. The effect of the bend was to wear the top bearing race eccentric on the worm.

                      SO- first thing to check is that the top bearing inner race on the worm is concentric with the worm itself. if it's not there should be pretty obvious wear patterns visible on the race. If it's not concentric, or has worn strangely, then it can (and MUST) be re-cut or ground to true the bearing surfaces. Obviously if the worm is wobbling internally, you're not going to set your adjustments too successfully.

                      When the race has been confirmed as good, or has been restored, THEN re-assemble and check for straightness at the shaft end.

                      If it wobbles, then the shaft is pretty definitely bent. Mark the high spot on the shaft, disassemble, clamp the worm in a large vice with hardwood (or copper / brass) liners to protect the worm, and pull against the bend being careful not to overdo it. Do the repair bending COLD don't use heat. Re-assemble and check for improvement. Then disassemble and do it again if need be. Ours took about 4 tries to get it right. The shaft end should spin within 1/16" total wobble before I'd call it done.

                      Check to be sure whether you have the early or more common late shaft and worm assembly. No worm bearings are available for the early unit so you'll need to determine if it is worth moving forward with your existing parts.

                      Machining
                      With the selected bearings there are three diameter options for the sector shaft, 1.1235" O.D. (standard), 1.1019" / 1.1024" O.D., or If 1.101" won't clean it up, the last possibility is 1.0625" / 1.0635" O.D. If the shaft won't clean up at 1.062" O.D. then it's too far gone. I'd get a bit nervous about going smaller or building it with weld because of the heat involved. The object here is to go with the largest option that will provide a proper bearing surface.

                      The sector shaft is tough, but not hardened so it turns well with carbide tooling. Polish the shaft after turning as well as possible, or finish grind it to size if you're equipped. Tolerances should be kept to the large side on the O.D., and the small side on the housing bores. The shaft should "Screw" into the bearings if things are right. If it's loose and just slides in, then the slop in the steering wheel will be VERY noticeable. The kits sold by the Model"A" Parts venders have been reported to go together loosely. The components and machining above result in tight assemblies when done properly.

                      I also use a Torrington NTA-1828 needle thrust with a Torrington TRC-1828 Thrust washer. Instead of the brass washer between the sector and the housing inside. Since the Needle thrust assy. is thicker (0.173") than the Brass shim, (0.035") the end of the housing must be cut back 0.140" to allow the sector to be in its normal position. Use the thrust washer on the housing side of the needle thrust.

                      As far as the worm goes, if they're pitted on the thrust bearing surfaces they can be machined or ground. Grinding, of course is preferred, but turning followed by some manual polishing works too, particularly for the limited use car. Duplicate the angle of the race. You can go pretty deep on the upper end (steering wheel end) but any cuts made on the bottom end will have to be compensated for by shimming the lower bearing race to compensate for the lost length. Fortunately, the lower bearing race appears to stay in good shape. Please note: Most worm gears aren't hardened on the bearing surfaces. To be sure you must run a file over the surface lightly to check. If the file bites into the surface easily, it's not hardened. If it skips or glides over the thrust surface, it's hardened and should be ground.

                      Sector Seal
                      The seal at the outside end is Chicago Rawhide #11124 for a standard shaft, OR #10598 for a turned down one. Both seals fit in a 1.624" dia x 0.250" deep bore. MAKE SURE that you indicate on the short side of the housing on the frame flange side, or you'll not set the bearings / seal in deeply enough.

                      Parts List
                      See the following table:

                      1.1235 (standard) 1.374" - 1.375" dia.
                      by 1.062" deep
                      (2)Torrington BH-1816 Chicago Rawhide
                      #11124
                      1.1019" / 1.1024" 1.376" / 1.377" bore
                      x 1.062" deep
                      (2)Torrington FJV-2820 Chicago Rawhide
                      #10598
                      1.376" / 1.377" bore
                      x 1.3" deep
                      (4)Torrington FJV-28161 Chicago Rawhide
                      #10598
                      1.0625" / 1.0635" 1.3115" / 1.3125" bore
                      x 1.3" deep
                      (4)Torrington B-1710 Chicago Rawhide
                      #10598
                      Sector Thrust Bearing and Washer
                      Torrington NTA-1828 Torrington TRC-1828 Cut 0.140" from inside end of sector housing
                      1Preferred
                      2Bore for seals - 1.624" dia x 0.250" deep
                      Fitting Needle Bearings
                      I installed needles (Torrington units that I bought locally) and they exhibited considerable pre-load on the sector shaft when installed, but I also installed them in slightly undersized bores to ensure a tight fit. If yours show looseness, I'd take care of that immediately - check for undersizing on the shaft. While needles are "Zero-clearance" they are more compliant than bushings, and should be set up tightly. The first steering box has been in use for well over two years now and still only has ½ - ¾" of rim play with the final adjustment we gave it back when. We also installed a ¼" N.P.T. drain plug in the steering box so that we could easily change the lube since we expected wear when the "high spots" of our grinding job wore off. So far, though, there hasn't been any evidence of wear so the plug is probably a waste of time. A small contact area can result in binding since the teeth "dig in".

                      Sector Gear Inspection
                      If you look at the teeth on the sector, you'll probably find a "step" in the tooth down by the root - maybe 1/8" inch up from the bottom of the teeth. This is where the worm has been riding, and the "step" will be the only area of the tooth that contacts if the gearset is tightened. This small contact area will wear away quickly and let the gear loosen again. What you really want at center position is full(er) contact between the worm and the sector which can only be achieved through fitting the gears. SO - bluing and a Dremel or die grinder to knock off the high spots so that you have at least 30% tooth contact after adjustment. Typically smoothing at the roots of the teeth to take out the step, and some chamfering of the tooth tips will be needed to correct jams of the gearing as it's adjusted together. I wouldn't try grinding on the worm -only the sector.

                      If you've mixed used parts fitting will definitely be necessary to achieve good tooth contact and jam-free operation lock to lock.

                      Adjustment and Fitting the Gears
                      Check the Sector thrust adjusting screw. The thrust face often has an eccentric high spot from wear. The surface must be filed or ground flat to obtain proper adjustment.

                      When tightening the upper race, don't do it as tightly as the books indicates since this appears to distort the top race. I just take the adjustment down so the end play is gone, and maybe ¼ turn farther for a LITTLE pre-load. If you can feel drag in the steering wheel because of the steering shaft bearings they're WAY too tight.

                      Basically, get the lubricant out of the box so that the gears are dry, lightly grease the bearings, and spray the sector with machinist's blue. then re-assemble and adjust as well as possible. Finally heavily load the sector in one direction and crank the steering lock to lock, then load it in the other direction and crank it back the other way, then disassemble and see what got rubbed off.

                      You'd like a significant amount of the blue to be gone particularly on the face areas of the tooth. It's likely, though that there will be very little rubbed off, and probably concentrated either at the tips, or in the root area where the wear pattern goes away. Then get out your Dremel and commence to grind the areas where the blue is rubbed off so you can mate the gears more deeply and achieve a better fit. Keep at it until you have at least 25 - 30% tooth contact - more if you have the patience. It took about 12 iterations on my box to get there and occupied the better part of two evenings. Bill's box ('30 tudor) was still using the original gear set and came in pretty good in only 8 tries. his main problem had been that his steering shaft was bent, and we had to re-cut the upper race (which is not hardened - go figure) and straighten the shaft - see above.

                      As a final touch, it is a good idea to blue the teeth one last time and ONLY move back and forth in the middle ½ revolution to check the engagement specifically in that small area that's supposed to be tight. If you're getting about 30% contact there, everything's good.

                      Parenthetically, you should also make sure that the zero-play area of the steering gear results in the wheels being straight ahead. Before attaching the drag link, find dead center of the steering box by turning the wheel lock to lock deviding the motion. Mark the steering wheel at the top (at center) with a piece of masking tape. Complete the assembly and set or confirm proper toe-in. The car should travel straight ahead with the tape still at the top. If not, a bent pittman arm or replacement ball seat sets in the drag link could be at fault. This must be corrected for smooth, tight steering

                      Front End Checks
                      Check the thrust bearings at the spindles. If you can turn it with the weight on the wheels, it's WAY too loose. The cup washer under the axle where the felt is should turn easily, however, and if it doesn't the car may be sitting on it. With the car jacked, though and the drag link disconnected, the wheels should turn lock to lock easily. King pins that are set up too tightly sometimes seize - it's not uncommon to see this, particularly nowadays when most shops aren't as familiar with the old ways.


                      3 ~ Tudor's
                      Henry Ford said
                      "It's all nuts and bolts"


                      Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        To remove the lower housing race just get a 3/16th drift and go in through the 1/4-20 bottom holes. Tap one side of the race up then the other. Once the drifts bottom out (be careful of the threads) then just go in through the large opening with any size punch to knock it out the rest of the way.

                        Others have used a mig welder to shrink the race
                        3 ~ Tudor's
                        Henry Ford said
                        "It's all nuts and bolts"


                        Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Good evening. I have the two tooth Gemmer box out of my 31 coupe. I have removed the worm gear from the shaft and have referenced this thread for the installation of the new reproduction worm gear. I am going to follow the directions here and tap the 5/8 threads on the inside of the shaft, and that is where my questions arise. What is the purpose of the split lock washer under the flat washer? Is it to stop the flat washer from turning on the end of the worm gear? Thanks. Jim.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Poor Boy View Post
                            Good evening. I have the two tooth Gemmer box out of my 31 coupe. I have removed the worm gear from the shaft and have referenced this thread for the installation of the new reproduction worm gear. I am going to follow the directions here and tap the 5/8 threads on the inside of the shaft, and that is where my questions arise. What is the purpose of the split lock washer under the flat washer? Is it to stop the flat washer from turning on the end of the worm gear? Thanks. Jim.
                            Jim it helps to insulate the flat washer from the pressure by adding more beef. The flat washer could be easily bent without it. Being that it is smaller in diameter it pushes on the center of the worm so the outer edges do not get marred. Basically it was just how I set it up and other substitutes may work.
                            Good luck
                            3 ~ Tudor's
                            Henry Ford said
                            "It's all nuts and bolts"


                            Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks. Will let you know how I make out. Jim.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Has anyone taken a 44 inch steering shaft and after removing worm gear shortened it to the 43 inch length?

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Just a little feed back to let you know how I made out. I have an old Blackhawk hydraulic puller that has a “C” shaped attachment that worked really well for removing the worm. I think that it may have been designed to push out king pins or something like that. To install the new worm, I followed Mitch’s method and tapped the inside of the shaft. The steering shaft is really hard and it takes a pretty good tap to cut it. Mine is old and probably getting dull so this took some care. I stacked some 3/4 inch washers on a 5/8 bolt to push the new worm on. Mitch’s method of extending the threads on the bolt would have been better and faster, but I didn’t have a die and made due. I followed the Red book on the set up, and am fairly confident in the results. I think that I might try a four foot piece of threaded rod next time to avoid threading the steering shaft.
                                  Believe it or not, it took longer to install new spark and throttle rods than rebuilding the actual box. I fought with every single new piece, which all sort of fit. Much of this stuff was early reproduction that I had acquired and I sure hope the current stuff is better. The rods are oversized and I had to drill out the top bushing and the bottom levers. The holes for the lever pins were undersized, and the spacing was off a bit. The new springs were way too stiff, so I reused the originals, but had to cut off two coils. It sounds like a real hack job, but I actually have it pretty good. The spark and throttle rods have a nice feel and you can detect each notch on the quadrant.
                                  I will wait for another day to install it in the car, because I have had enough fun for one day. Lol. Jim.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Glad you got it Jim. I never had to open up the bushing, so those rods were surely off. It's usually a tight fit on the current repo control rod arm, so a little cleaning up allows them to slide on the rod. The current lower springs work pretty good.
                                    3 ~ Tudor's
                                    Henry Ford said
                                    "It's all nuts and bolts"


                                    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Scan0302.jpgScan0303.jpg
                                      3 ~ Tudor's
                                      Henry Ford said
                                      "It's all nuts and bolts"


                                      Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Steering box end plate and leak info

                                        Another thread
                                        3 ~ Tudor's
                                        Henry Ford said
                                        "It's all nuts and bolts"


                                        Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          I am no mechanic but can usually perform many repairs if I am given detailed instructions. There is a wealth of information on the forum and many knowledgeable individuals willing to share their experience and knowledge but sometimes you have to read multiple posts from a variety of posters to gain the complete picture.

                                          I recently worked on fixing my leaking 2 tooth steering box using information from this forum and Les Andrews Mechanics Handbook. After completing the tasks involved (well almost) I decided to gather the information into one document. This would have been useful to me and wanted to contribute to the forum. The information is not original but came from this forum and Les Andrews' book. If anyone has additions or corrections I would like to hear them. As I stated above, I am no mechanic.

                                          One thing I learned by reading this forum is that there are varying opinions on the best way to do things and products to use.


                                          492D3FEB-D63D-4CCF-A1A6-1A9C374A56D9.jpeg

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