Front Axle Info!

[Mike V. Florida]

Go ahead the were made "soft".

[pAAt]

Mike, by heating the axle, is there a chance of hardening or tempering it ? Do you let it cool down by itself or can you cool it down faster with some water ? Pat hates to wreck everything he touches and I have a few axles that need the perches removed. Thanks, pAAt

[tbirdtbird]

because of the taper, the perches are really pounded in there and can be more difficult to remove than anything you have ever done.
If the axle is out of the car, use a press.
If in the car then I would have no problem in using an O/A torch. Propane will not get you where you want to go. I would not quench.
Once the axle is hot then rotate them in the bores to break them free.
The axle is quite strong because of the high vanadium content

The pic Mike put up is from an exhibit Ford did at a World's Fair or some such event to showcase the axle strength

[pAAt]

I do need a press !! and Thanks, Mike and Bird man

[Kevin in NJ]

NEVER heat the axle past about 300-400 degrees!!! It will significantly reduce the 'spring' of the axle. Ford showed the ductility of the metal by putting it in a huge lathe. That is the axle will not break. The metal was special (type EE or AA, that is what those marks indicate).
If the grease starts to smoke stop!!

They are very very tough forged items. They take quite a bit of abuse. When you go to straighten an axle you find it take a lot of pumps (10 ton press) to make a small change on a good axle. One that is heat the a few pumps and the axle makes a big change- like butter.

I found a long throw air hammer with a flat round on a strongly mounted vice (mine is like 150lbs) you can slowly press out the perch with almost not distortion to the threads. You need a long throw air hammer not the cheapo you find all over.

axle straightening

[DaWizard]

Hey Kevin, WELCOME to VFF!!! Looking forward to your input.

[sunnyorm]

years ago one of my earlier mentors used his 30 ton press, with quite a bit of energy to free up and pop my spring perches. LOUD, when it happened, everyone jumped.

[Mikey]

Front Axle Bending info

Original Thread

Well finally getting parts out of the barn of my 31 roadster. Got looking at the front axle and it looks bent, put a string from end to end and she has a 3/8 to 7/16 pow to the rear. I'll start looking for someone with a press but till then, is there a spec on the bow top to bottom ? or anything else I should look for ? As always, thanks for any help. Mikey

[Larry Jenkins]

Bend it cold!

[Mitch]

Here is something that was laying in the chassis tech

https://www.vintagefordforum.com/forum/model-a/technical-reference-chassis/24284-heating-an-axle-to-remove-the-perch

[Mitch]

Mikey how are you going to know when the axle is bent back to the proper specs when it's not on the car? Whenever I see an axle straightened it's verified on an alignment rack. To save you a lot of agg and since your car is in pieces I would source a good straighter looking front axle.

[Jim Mason]

Screenshot_2018-04-30-07-49-38.pngScreenshot_2018-04-30-07-49-07.png

[SeaSlugs]

Mikey how are you going to know when the axle is bent back to the proper specs when it's not on the car? Whenever I see an axle straightened it's verified on an alignment rack. To save you a lot of agg and since your car is in pieces I would source a good straighter looking front axle.

i agree - find a straight axle since its already apart.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Ken Ehrenhoffer (sp) straightens front axles, and has the guide pins used to show when everything is correct.
He also had some for sale at last years swap meet on his property.

[Mitch]

Ken Ehrenhoffer (sp) straightens front axles, and has the guide pins used to show when everything is correct.
He also had some for sale at last years swap meet on his property.

That's what you need to bench it correctly. Most do not have this capability
Ken may not be to far from Mikey

[Larry Jenkins]

Brent.. As you well know, heating steel for forming requires a lot of skill so the material returns to it's original state. If heated improperly, there can be a chemistry change that might affect the composition and integrity of the material being reworked.

[sjhark]

If all else fails, Steve at Bert's Model A might have another used one. I just bought one from him for my 31 Roadster, as no one in my part of the country would repair my original one.

[Bob C]

filedata/fetch?id=80234&d=1554106379&type=thumbfiledata/fetch?id=80235&d=1554105992&type=thumb I always think of these pictures when people say heating the axle destroys it.

[Mike V. Florida]

Axle Straightening


take a look here, http://www.cabriolet.piklefactory.co...aightening.htm

[Jim Mason]

Fore and aft bends are done out of the car. caster camber can be done on the car with the right tools. here's the Ford recommended tools. note the caster camber is adjusted between the perch and kingpin.

Studio_20180501_190955.pngStudio_20180501_191037.png

[Kevin in NJ]

FWIW, the forging process and treating process gives the axle the properties that allow it to take a lot of repeated hits and not keep a bend. When the axle is heated past a certain temp it losses this at that area and will take significantly less force to affect a permemant change.

How do I know this read the reposting of axle straightening I wrote.

The fact is when you heat the A axle it looses the properties that allow it to not deform without a lot of force. What does this mean, well consider that curb hit. A regular axle will take it and return to it original position, a heated axle may move a fraction of a inch upon return. Over time you will have the axle move. Just the heated ones are going to move a lot more.

Oh, yea before you tell me that you have one and it looks fine, measure it.
Now do not get me wrong. I know that most guys will never have a problem as they hardly drive their cars. Plus often (as least in what I have seen) the axle mis-alignment is minor problem in the whole scheme of their car and how it was put together. That is more often then not the modified cars are not engineered very well.

[Mitch]

Per the Dec 1930 service letters, bend a front axle cold

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[Steve Plucker]

Original Thread

On a good front axle...What is the measurement, diameter wise, of the holes where the King Pin is inserted to?

Thanks.

Pluck

[Marco Tahtaras]

Initially it was .812"-.813". In January 1929 they loosened it to .812"-.814".

[Steve Plucker]

Thank you Marco...Just what I was looking for!

Pluck

[dmaxweb]

What is the diameter of an original king pin?

[Bob C]

filedata/fetch?id=256772&d=1580776940&type=thumb

[Marco Tahtaras]

I found my axle documentation and checked some of my parts. I got out a pair of Ford king pins and took some measurements. I first went over the surfaces with a fine scotchbrite pad. The first one measured .8124"- .8125" The second measured .8120"- .8121".

I already had an axle out in the shop with clean eyes. The smaller pin would go in both eyes under it's own weight and show a very subtle wobble. The larger pin required rotating the pin to get it through both eyes! And of course, no wobble at all. What a difference a few ten thousandths of an inch makes!

Okay, now to the specs. I wish I had some on the pins but I don't. The axle eyes were originally specified as reamed to .812"- .813". In January 1929 they loosened it to .812"- .814".

[OMI]

1

Ck out the original Thread

Two steps forward and one step back. After removing hubs I found a bend axle. It appears that someone pulled this car and bent the axle somewhere in the area of the green tape. Good news is it’s not twisted.

[OMI]

2

I think I’ve been successful. After reading Ron and Kevin’s post on bending axles, I had a good idea on where I needed to go. Marco summed up in two sentences. Symmetrical, parallel and 7 degrees inside tilt. Thanks guys, sometimes it takes a village.
I used the fork on the lift as a beam to bend to and this made it very easy to slide the axle around and massage it back into the shape I wanted. I used dental floss for string as it’s thin, lite, strong and pulls to a straight line. I used a small square beside the press ram so I could see how far I was bending. There was a lot of spring back (.300 to .325 depending on the length of the bend) in the axle but I could compensate by reading the small square. I tried to make long sweeping bends so the axle would not end up looking like a snake. I used the surface plate to get me in the ball park and make the axle look straight then fine tuned to the string. Once I was happy with straightness of axle I went back to the surface to check for twist. Ended up with about .030 on 10 inch length. That comes out to 0.172 degrees. I’m thinking that’s good enough. I did not try to twist the axle.

[Gdillingham]

Wow wish I had that surface plate!! Axles, motorcycle frames, etc

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

I am constantly amazed at the capabilities/resourcefulness some VFF members have to correct issues on 90+ year old cars.