Announcement

Collapse

Welcome to the Model A Forums

General Discussion
See more
See less

Reasonable Expectations on a Sedan Roof (--revisited topic)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Reasonable Expectations on a Sedan Roof (--revisited topic)

    I think we touched on this briefly some before but I would like to re-discuss this again.

    What do you think is a reasonable expectation for a Fordor Sedan roof/top as far as keeping water out of the interior? This would be a vehicle with new wood and new top fabric however with the reproduction aluminum top mouldings. From your personal experiences, are we thinking;
    • -there should be no water leaks whatsoever,
    • -possible minor seepage or leaks during a heavy down-pour,
    • -or it is going to leak no matter what??

    Thoughts??

    .

  • #2
    My opinion is if they did not leak when new, then it should not leak now even with repo parts. I would think that the roofs were tight when the car was produced
    2 1930 Tudors

    Henry Ford said
    "It's all nuts and bolts"


    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree with Mitch.

      Even if the look isn't perfect, it should still be waterproof. My thought was when I decide to replace my Flex-Shot roof I will be laying down a piece of plastic before the actual roof material to insure that there are no leaks. Why would I spend the great expense to install a quality interior to have the inexpensive roof leak?
      VFF Recruiter

      "We do not stop playing because we grow old;
      We grow old because we stop playing ...
      NEVER Be The First To Get Old!" Pilfered from the MAFC SA Newsletter

      I JUST CAN'T FIX STUPID!!

      "Why so Serious?"

      Comment


      • Big hammer
        Big hammer commented
        Editing a comment
        My experiences with plastics isn’t good, I’ve used as weed barrier that didn’t last, milk jug leaking oil, and sheets in the garage Disintegrate !

      • DaWizard
        DaWizard commented
        Editing a comment
        Sounds like I will be leaving my Flex-Shot top on for awhile!

    • #4
      I agree with Mitch also

      Comment


      • #5
        True Model A Experiences and Expectations?

        After (20)+ years of reading past Model A Forum messages, only a few Model A owners liked to post that:

        Their carburetor never leaked a drop of fuel; their engine does not kill when burning rubber off of all (4) tires on an abrupt stop with a Zenith carburetor; their engine's rear bearing never, ever leaks oil; shifting from 3rd to 2nd coming down hill on a steep hill at 65 mph is absolutely no problem; all of their five (5) tires hold exactly (35) pounds of air without adding air for at least (5) years; their original vacuum windshield wiper works well in a storm when pouring rain comes down at 12" of rain per hour, even while passing another car while driving up a steep hill; however,

        even though my Model A's are or were all guilty of all of the above at one time or another, for some unknown reason, my 1930 Briggs Town Sedan roof never leaked in the past (12) years.

        Other than that, I would have absolutely no idea why this roof does not leak, or who installed this roof years ago.

        According to the former Model A owners, (supposedly three (3) former owners), this Model A never spent one night out of doors.

        My best guess is that this present Model A roof was installed at the same time as it was partially, cosmetically restored without removing the body from the frame in about 1978 ...... maybe 40 years old ...... but still always parked under cover, and never parked out of doors in sun or any type of inclement weather.

        In my opinion, the sun's UV rays can cause more damage to any membrane roof than non-standing runoff water.

        Applying gravel on a bituminous membrane roof is only for UV protection to prevent the deterioration of the felt layers and adhesive bituminous materials between felts down below.

        Just for kicks, a new Model A roof covered with gravel for UV protection would probably last longer; plus, nobody would follow said Model A closely like tailgating.

        Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 04-25-2018, 11:51 AM.

        Comment


        • Jeff/Illinois
          Jeff/Illinois commented
          Editing a comment
          I like that idea of gravel on a Model A roof!!

      • #6
        Just to add a bit of vintage roof history to Reply #5 above, FWIW, my Dad, (born 1902), ran a repair garage/filling station from 1920 until 1932.

        When I bought my $25.00 Coupe in 1958, I told him my roof was leaking.

        He told me that was very normal back then because, (mostly after the Wall-Street crash in 1929), people used to drive up to his garage to buy gasoline where the wife or girlfriend was holding an umbrella over her and her well dressed husband/boyfriend while sitting inside the car every time it was pouring down rain.

        Comment


        • #7
          No leaks whatsoever. With all the modern slathers & goos available I could not see assembling a roof without them. Today's windshield setting urethane and body seam sealers make a leak proof install pretty easy. As for pinholes developing in the roofing material and sewn seams there are plenty of easy wipe on treatments for that, too.

          Comment


          • #8
            Brent: depending on year and if exposed fasteners, we've had issues as to type of sealer used under the mouldings. The same for setting the rubber type inserts say for a 160B and a few other models. Over the years, we've found that the weak link is the sealant . Some use urethane or paintable solvent type sealants. Another choice is what's in the Diablo A's club produced videos, available from the vendors, etc. I once had a 31 coupe with the masonite (Door skin/ carpet /fabric roof ) like in the videos , which was a solid and weather tight system installed before final painting and masked off. The chicken wire is omitted with the fabric glued down , though may be harder to replace. Due to condensation, air circulation, heat breakdown, etc. would suggest not using any separate loose plastic membranes.

            Comment


            • #9
              So far most agree that there should not be any leaks at all. Modern sealers are also mentioned to use when installing a top. What if any sealers were used when the car was assembled new? I'm thinking maybe no sealers were used
              2 1930 Tudors

              Henry Ford said
              "It's all nuts and bolts"


              Mitch's Auto Service ctr

              Comment


              • #10
                Mitch, the service bulletins show a Victoria top replacement and sealant applied from a bulb. Working on an orig. 1927 Chrysler sport coupe, we found a thin layer of a liquid type bituminous or tar like substance under the hidem. The top materials look very similar to those found on Ford cars but can't answer your question directly. We know of an upholsterer back in the 1950's who used bees wax to seal convertible tops seams ,etc..
                Last edited by plyfor; 04-25-2018, 01:39 PM.

                Comment


                • #11
                  Thanks Lewis, I forgot about those pictures in the SB. They call it a special sealing fluid...
                  2 1930 Tudors

                  Henry Ford said
                  "It's all nuts and bolts"


                  Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    I think they were like anything else,they were not supposed to leak but did.My grandfather sold them new,and he said the first thing to go was the gas guage.Sometimes the new car would have a gas-logged float from the factory.Shocks were close behind.Some were just leakers from the get-go.He sold a new late 31 steel top truck to his friend,the guy was tickled because it didn't rain all over the inside like my grandfathers 29.truck.

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Originally posted by Mitch View Post
                      So far most agree that there should not be any leaks at all. Modern sealers are also mentioned to use when installing a top. What if any sealers were used when the car was assembled new? I'm thinking maybe no sealers were used

                      Two things. First, as mentioned above, while some might assume that they should not leak, I think some might erroneously compare this to expectations of a modern vehicle. I would need to go verify the date, but leaks are mentioned in the Service Bulletins in '28, and Ford already had the answer by offering a sealer they manufactured and offered to their dealers to sell. If leaks were not a common problem back then, -then explain why Ford went to the trouble of manufacturing a sealer and issuing a part number to their dealers to order it. Remember, Ford only had to warrant it for 90 days.

                      Second, no real sealer was initially used however the original mouldings were manufactured more robust than what reproduction mouldings are today. The same for the deck materials. The canvas was much more durable, likely due to the thickness. Today's mouldings are made from a soft aluminum so they can be bent and contoured to the proper shape. The issue is while they are pliable, they offer no rigidity or clamping force to hold the fabric down against the metal. The original mouldings when nailed down could clamp the material much more firmly.


                      While I agree the goal is no leaks, even with modern sealers, what are you saying is the expectation? If I were to hold a garden water hose directly above the roof decking and allow a steady stream of water to pour onto the top, are we saying that it should not have any leakage into the inside??

                      Comment


                      • Mitch
                        Mitch commented
                        Editing a comment
                        SB pg 390

                        ""A few complaints"" To me that means leaks were not common place

                      • Mitch
                        Mitch commented
                        Editing a comment
                        One would think if cars were having headliners and interiors ruined after delivery we would have certainly known about it.

                      • Mitch
                        Mitch commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Not that it matters but what documentation mentions if sealer was originally used or not?

                      • BRENT in 10-uh-C
                        BRENT in 10-uh-C commented
                        Editing a comment
                        A few complaints back in the day was different IMO. People were not complainers like they are today. Society has changed where everyone like to 'gritch' about something. Even back then, think of the liability exposure is they said "We have had a lot of complaints." By them mentioning they are receiving complaints (--as opposed to other fixes in the Bulletin that they do not mention receiving complaints) tells me they were not all dry. By Ford marketing a sealer in a pint-sized cans to sell also tell you there is more than just a "few complaints".

                    • #14
                      When I brought my Tudor home, it spent its first night in the drive way before I could move it across town to my shop. The next morning we had a fairly heavy downpour. The cars has no interior except for front seats. I had a small wet spot in the middle of the rear floor. I could not find dampness on the underside of the roof. Once in the shop, I place a very bright halogen work lamp in various spots inside, turned off the shop lights and carefully examined the roof, but could see no light shinning through. The roof was replaced during the 20 year old restoration and looks perfect. Should I spray one of highly touted sealers on the underside of the roof before installing the headliner?
                      Last edited by slammin; 04-25-2018, 04:01 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Mitch
                        Mitch commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I would water test it to see what's up, before installing the headliner. Personally since your doing the interior over if the roof itself is bad then replace it. Mucking the canvas in this situation would not be the route for me

                      • BRENT in 10-uh-C
                        BRENT in 10-uh-C commented
                        Editing a comment
                        You also must remember the top material today that Miami Rubber manufactures is not as thick nor is it double coated as original.

                    • #15
                      I would.
                      VFF Recruiter

                      "We do not stop playing because we grow old;
                      We grow old because we stop playing ...
                      NEVER Be The First To Get Old!" Pilfered from the MAFC SA Newsletter

                      I JUST CAN'T FIX STUPID!!

                      "Why so Serious?"

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X