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Should I match my Model B carb to my Model A intake manifold?

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  • Should I match my Model B carb to my Model A intake manifold?

    When I bought my 1930 CCPU, it came with the 'A Manifold' / 'B Zenith' combo, and the manifold is not modified in any way. I've been thinking about porting/honing (what ever the right process is here?) the manifold. My truck never goes faster than 45, and almost always cruises at about 40.

    So is it worth the effort to modify the manifold?

    Normally I don't make any significant or permanent modifications to my stock cars. If I do modify the intake, the manifold will be from a parts donor so that I can leave the original manifold alone.

    Alex

  • #2
    Alex, anything you do to improve the drivability of your A is worth the effort. Something as simple as removing a bit of internal manifold will add too horsepower, maybe not much, but anything is better than nothing, besides, no one but you and I will know that you did it, and I ain't tellin a soul.
    "We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing ...
    NEVER Be The First To Get Old!" Pilfered from the MAFC SA Newsletter

    I JUST CAN'T FIX STUPID!!

    Comment


    • Ayyy
      Ayyy commented
      Editing a comment
      I think you're right Wiz, good points.

  • #3
    throw care to the wind...been driving a mitchell equipped stock model a around the block..in high range its absolutely amazing..stock fresh engine handles first gear high range no problem,and if you wring out second you eyes are tearing..

    Comment


    • #4
      Yes bore out the intake. It does make a difference.

      Comment


      • Ayyy
        Ayyy commented
        Editing a comment
        Other folks are agreeing with you George, so I think I will.

    • #5
      I just had mine done, but the engine is not back together yet, so no report on improvement.
      Bill
      http://www.brauchauto.com/
      Eastern Connecticut

      Comment


      • Terry, NJ
        Terry, NJ commented
        Editing a comment
        Bill, I think you will like it! The effect is not as dramatic as bolting on a super charger, but there is an effect . Thinking about it, the mod.A can definitely benefit from a better breathing arrangement.
        Terry

      • 2manycars
        2manycars commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes Terry, that is why I installed larger intake valves.

    • #6
      Having limited access to a Bridgeport, and I have the tools to do it right. You'll need a Bridgeport or similar machine, a four inch, 1.125 locating pin and a 1.250 drill. Locate the manifold on the on the pin. Move your Angle Plate, clamped to the table, to it Clamp it to the angle plate. This is to be sure the drill follows the hole, the walls of the runner are thin and about to get thinner. Once located, drill the hole out to the bottom of the runner. Then, I I change the tool to a flycutter and take a skim on the carburetor face You have to break the setup because the the carb sits on a 3 deg. angle. Be sure you have the the manifold gasket face level with the cut. Then take a very light skim cut across this surface. Then I polish out the runners a little as far back up in the manifold as you can get. This eliminates any casting flaws that may cause turbulence in the flow. There is a debate about just how high a finish you should get on the runners, Some say a mirror finish is where it should be, some say to polish only to say, a 60 or 80 grit finish. The choice is yours. Paint Ford Engine green and assemble in reverse order. Be very careful of the "B" Carb. mounting ears. They break easily! If you break one, I have a method for repairing them, but it's a PITA.
      Terry

      Comment


      • Ayyy
        Ayyy commented
        Editing a comment
        The way I see this, the most important thing is to make the manifold bore slightly larger than the carb size. A larger manifold size would act as a 'funnel' and not restrict or disrupt flow, even if the funnel center point was slightly off from the carb bore center point. The old school methods of porting should be able to produce this funnel. Am I off base with this?

      • Terry, NJ
        Terry, NJ commented
        Editing a comment
        Well It's a good guess! But there's a good reason why the Carb runner is bored (And not ground) out. A funnel shape (Constriction) creates a bottle neck. which has the same effect as the smaller dia. at the carb. end of the runner. It's just now at the top of the runner, (Remember, the manifold is inverted) but it's still a constriction, just in a different place. Then there is the fact that the runner divides to supply the two runners that supply the cylinders. The whole idea is to process more air, to feed the two runners with more air, faster. to increase the volumetric efficiency of the cylinder. As Bill (2manycars) said, "that why I installed larger intake valves." About increasing the size of the bore to larger than the carb size, I bore with a 1.250 carbide tipped drill. That plus polishing gives me a finished size of approximately 1.280. Good Luck!
        Terry
        Last edited by Terry, NJ; 04-14-2018, 10:01 PM.

      • Ayyy
        Ayyy commented
        Editing a comment
        Good point Terry

    • #7
      I have a Model A intake manifold that has been bored to 1.25" to match the B carburetor if you're interested.

      Comment


      • Ayyy
        Ayyy commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks for the offer Mickey. I just picked up a manifold at the swap today. If I use the porting methods to 'funnel' the intake openning, it should be pretty straight forward. Is that the method that you used, or did you bore it all the way down?
        Last edited by Ayyy; 04-14-2018, 09:38 PM.

      • Mickey
        Mickey commented
        Editing a comment
        I sent the manifold down to Texas and had Piranios do the full bore.

      • 2manycars
        2manycars commented
        Editing a comment
        Bore it all the way to the top.

    • #8
      Hi Alex,

      FWIW: Mr. Ron Kelley, (advertiser in the MAFCA magazine "The Restorer"), a dedicated wonderful gentleman and exacting engine re-builder, doesn't do Forums messages.

      I wish he would consider posting on this new VFF site.

      I guess after his witnessing so many past, multiple cruel and odd ball Model A owner Forum jerks trying to pretend to be Albert Einstein of the Model A World, he decided to stay away from Model A Forums.

      But, if you call him at (972) 771-1911, you will find out how to inexpensively increase Model engine horsepower with simple porting.

      My Model A purrs like a kitten because of following Mr. Ron Kelley's many Model A suggestions.
      Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 04-15-2018, 04:21 AM.

      Comment


      • #9
        It would be much easier just to buy a Model B intake manifold, you're obviously not worried about "total originality". It's going to be cheaper than machining the A manifold.

        Comment


        • Ayyy
          Ayyy commented
          Editing a comment
          Its my understanding that a B-manifold has the carb flange mounted at a different angle compared to the A-manifold. This causes the GAV control rod to not align properly with the through-hole in the firewall. That's my understanding anyway...

        • Ayyy
          Ayyy commented
          Editing a comment
          In regards to "total originality". For the most part the truck is stock and original. Based on what little is known about the truck, the B carb has been on there a very very long time. So, although not factory original, the B carb has been on the truck for most of its life, so I have no problem keeping it that way.

          The same goes for the tailgate chain covers, and a few other ancient replacement parts.

          I tried this same approach with the CA DMV in regards to the 1963 licence plates that were on the truck. That of course didn't fly at all

        • AL in NY
          AL in NY commented
          Editing a comment
          The vendors sell mounting kits(Snyder's # B-9510-S) to turn the carburetor slightly on the "B" manifold to allow proper alignment of the GAV rod.

        • 2manycars
          2manycars commented
          Editing a comment
          I thought of that, but the B manifold looks funny, and some of them have a huge vacuum port at the rear.

        • George Miller
          George Miller commented
          Editing a comment
          I would stay with the bored out A. They work real well look right fit right and you can put on a A carb if you decide to go back to original. The bored out manifold will work great with a original carb.

          If Terry will do them for 45 dollars that is a real good deal.

      • #10
        To answer your questions and possible problems with mounting "B" carburetors, I provide bored out and polished manifolds at $45 + shipping each. You will find that you need a different fuel line and they are available from B & B mod. A, Breinigsville, Pa. The price is around $10 + shipping. This is the only one piece fuel line available and at $10, the cheapest. It makes a nice clean installation.

        Comment


        • Ayyy
          Ayyy commented
          Editing a comment
          Hey thanks Terry, that's a pretty good deal. Do you require an exchange/core manifold? Alex

        • Ayyy
          Ayyy commented
          Editing a comment
          Terry- I tried to send a message, but I cant get it work for some reason. I would like to proceed. Please let me know the next step. Alex

        • pAAt
          pAAt commented
          Editing a comment
          Shit Tom !! Bucks County is only a half hour away from Mitches We may need to extend our trip again and at that point Newfoundland is getting really close ??

        • Mitch
          Mitch commented
          Editing a comment
          I live in Bucks County too but I’m tight on space :0

        • Terry, NJ
          Terry, NJ commented
          Editing a comment
          A couple of points, First, I will buy all the solid, uncracked intake manifolds I can get at $5 @ Yeah I know it isn't much, but that's how I keep costs down. Most, I buy off vendor $3 or $5 blankets (Where everything on the blanket goes for $5). I've seen guys try to flog them out for much as $50@, but "No Sale". So Remember, as you are thinking "Cheapskate!" when you read this, that it's the reason I can rework them and sell them for what I can.
          I will be at the Model A Day swapmeet/show at Trexlertown on Sun, Apr. 22. I was going to go to Brent Terry's but with the traveling and the conflict of dates, I decided to stay closer to home.
          B & B is from Breinigsville which is next door to Trexlertown and I know Bill will be at the show with his rebuilt carbs and distributors and accessories and his Mod. B fuel lines.
          See you then!
          Last edited by Terry, NJ; 04-17-2018, 08:34 AM.

        • Mickey
          Mickey commented
          Editing a comment
          I would add that the needed fuel line is also available from Sacramento Vintage Ford Parts for $12.95 +shipping.

      • #11
        http://www.modelaparts.net/special.htm/intake.html

        Comment


        • Terry, NJ
          Terry, NJ commented
          Editing a comment
          That's exactly the same setup I use
          Terry

      • #12
        I think I'll keep my engine stock Thank you Piranios and Mike ^^

        Comment


        • #13
          Terry- I'm pretty sure I won't be making that 3000 mile trip. Do you ship? Alex

          Comment


          • #14
            Yes, I can ship, send money! lol I don't know if the manifold will ship in one of the USPO's "prepaid" boxes. I will let you know.
            Terry

            Comment


            • Mickey
              Mickey commented
              Editing a comment
              Speaking from experience yes, it will.

            • Ayyy
              Ayyy commented
              Editing a comment
              Hey thanks for mailing it Terry. I'm pretty sure it fits in a USPS medium Flat Rate box (just under $14). I'll send money, just say how and where.

              You can send me a private message if you want. I tried to send you one, but no go. I've sent other PM's through the VFF without issue. Not quite sure whats going on.

              Alex

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