Well I'm getting ready to make a decision about my transmission. I have the original 3 speed in it and it's going to need a lot of work. I'm almost sure there's going to be something serious with the countershaft. I'm seeing bronze metallic the last time I dropped the oil. Sounds horrible in first, second, and reverse gear. Previous owners ran it low on oil, or it leaked out. I'd say more miles ran low or very little oil did the most damage. So knowing it's going to cost a good chunk of change to rebuild it maybe I should consider a Ford pickup overdrive. I don't have a clue where to start if anybody is doing a kit for these yet. I've read you need a AA bellhousing to start with and to my understanding the frame will not require cutting..?? I would prefer to keep my mechanical brakes. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Several options to consider for sure. I am planning to use a 39 Ford 3 speed. Then get a Mitchell OD later. The advantage of the Ford pickup 5 speed is an OD without a seperate component. Properly done it is nice. Kind of a nightmare to machine the needed parts for the conversion. Dad was thinking of installing a 5 speed in his coupe, but I think he changed his mind when we did not find the correct transmission at the U-pull-it yard after 4 different trips over a 6 months. Seems someone beat us to them as almost every manual transmission in those years of F-150's was missing. I already have a 39 transmission set back for him if he decides to use it. Rod"Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good." Thomas Sowell -
Gary Bernard in Ft Worth TX, who is a top-shelf tranny guy (runs AAAA Transmissions, a well known shop here) has the F-150 setup u need,and any of the accessories to make it work.
Give him a call
http://aaaatransmissionsinc.com/
tell him Dave and Ken of the Dallas club sent you
many of our club members run his OD tranny; we tour all over the place
you can keep your stock brakesLast edited by tbirdtbird; 07-06-2017, 10:53 PM.Comment
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How about a Mitchell trans, quick & easy! Just send them your case & tower.
Bill W.Comment
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I've considered that Bill. I don't mind not having synchros. I've had some big rig miles under my belt years ago, 6 and 4 both overdrive. Thing is I'd like to have an overdrive. And I'd like the challenge of a long trip someday maybe half way across the country. Hey Bill, you be interested in watching my dog Tater for me?Originally posted by BILL WILLIAMSON View PostComment
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Remove the floor, remove the shifter tower and check the gears. If the gears look good then shafts and bearings aren't that much $ and should be replaced in an overhaul !
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You mention "bronze metallic" in the drained oil. The only yellow metal in the Model A tranny is the bushing in the reverse idler gear. A used one of them should be cheap, but there still could be other damage. My tranny sounded like an old threshing machine, but I got lucky. It was just a couple bad rollers on the bearing between the input and output shafts. Everything else was like NOS.Comment
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I have the same feelings as the B-Hammer
These are pretty simple units overall, and use Tom Endys trans prudence article for the basic things that need to get replaced, bearings etc. I always use the shafts with the orings which helps with preventing leaks.
Since you mentioned that you see bronze in the metal there are two cluster gear thrust washers that are made of that material. This may not be as big of a deal that your expecting. When gears start moving around from slop due to worn washers and bearings yes they will make a ton of noise.3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
Henry Ford said,
"It's all nuts and bolts"
"Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."
Mitch's Auto Service ctrComment
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I forgot about the two thrust washers used on some transmissions. They were dropped at some point, but I'd have to look it up in the Service Bulletins. I'm thinking it was about mid 1929.Comment
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Well the car is a 1-3-29 engine and frame, matching. Near everything is original, brakes had been done and shoes didn't match. So I can only assume trans is original. Surprising engine was a .030 bore but still original block. Babbitt looked good with .0015 clearance. Anyway, didn't the cluster gear have a bronze thrust on each end? Was thinking that is why it's quiet in 3rd. I've never had a Model A 3 spd apart, but will soon. I have a curious mind and will end up taking it apart even if only to see how it's made and go from there. Yeah I read in the past repop gears aren't near as good as original. It never has popped out of gear yet, so I should do something before it gets worse. Thinking it might just be a bearing seal and shaft job with the oring shafts like Mitch mentioned. Too bad somebody doesn't make a kit for the doit yourselfer to make it a synchro trans. Problem with no synchros in a Model A is rpm has to drop soo much to get in next higher gear and is a hindrance when going uphill. Lugging too much in 3rd not my choice.Comment
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Originally posted by Dennis View Post
Reread posts 8 & 9, the thrust washers were discussed3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
Henry Ford said,
"It's all nuts and bolts"
"Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."
Mitch's Auto Service ctrComment
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When I bought my Model A, I had every intention of installing an overdrive. That intention became even more apparent when my stock tranny didn't want to stay in gear and 2nd sounded like a thrashing machine. I now have an F150 4 speed overdrive as mentioned above. I got a complete bolt-in kit from Dave Delmue in Morgan Hill CA. and have been very happy with it. He supplied all the necessary parts and machine work making the installation very doable.Alaskan A's
Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska
Model A Ford Club of America
Model A Restorers Club
Antique Automobile Club of America
Mullins Owners ClubComment
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Bob C:
Dave is still doing them. One guy in our club now has 2 of them, just recently got the second one. I talked to Dave a month or so and he said he was still doing them, just not advertising -- word of mouth & referrals keeps him busy.
Dennis:
Dave's kit includes everything including the tranny & bell housing. He does ask you to provide a drive shaft, tork tube, and radius rods. If you don't want to let loose of yours so he can modify them, we have had Bert's or AZ Model A supply them at a quite reasonable price.
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If you R&R your tranny yourself, the repop gears that are good are made by Mark. Berts carries the Mark brand, not sure about the others. Be sure to ask where they came from.If from anywhere else, pass on themComment
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It's going to be a LOT cheaper to redo the tranny you have than going for the f-150 or Mitchell. JMO
Paul in CTComment
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That's true, but the F-150 sure would make the car a much nicer daily driver for many. I hope to install a 3.27 ring and pinion someday.Originally posted by 1931 Flamingo View Post
When you remove the cluster gear shaft, remember it's supposed to be removed and installed only from the front side of the case.
In 3rd, the cluster gear will have no load, but will still be spinning. Only in 3rd the bearing between the input and output shafts will not be moving.
That was the bearing that was shot in my tranny.Comment
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Tom, did your trans make noise in third before you pulled it apart? I remember reading your thread in the past on your trans and about the roller between your input and output.Comment
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It made such a terrible racket as soon as I let the clutch out in first gear that I shut it down right away and took the tranny apart. It was only after taking it apart and finding only that one bearing was bad that it dawned on me that I could have pinpointed the bearing problem by shifting to each gear and letting out the clutch.Originally posted by Dennis View PostComment
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I have had an A with the Mitchell overdrive and now own an A with a F150 overdrive. F 150 cost a little more and more work but the finished product is FAR superior to the Michell overdrive, in my opinion. Final result is 4 speeds all synchronized, very pleasant to drive with less shifting.Comment
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I second that. Not only gained a better touring car but gained a co-driver (wife) Happy wife happy life.Comment
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How to evaluate the gears.
Originally the gears were cut in such a way that they had lines running across the face. If they are smooth and shiney they have wear.
The gears should also have a nice point on one side for the slider to engage.
If they dont have a correct point then it will be a hard shift. If the faces are super shiney and no points then the gears are worn time for new ones.
If they have lines across the faces and good points then they are good gears. Having good points buy shiney gears is ok too.
Some manuals will tell you to let the gear slide down the shaft. If is slides fast then it is too worn. That is a bad test. You need to measure the parts and somewhere there is a spec.
Open take the top off the gear box and take some quality pictures from different angles and post them. You will then learn what looks good and not.Comment
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Both of my Model A’s have the original transmissions in them. All that was needed in each case was a good cleaning, new shafts (with o-ring seals) and new roller bearings on the cluster gear shaft. Even though the cluster gear showed a little wear, the transmissions are both smooth and quiet and don’t leak.
these transmissions are simple to work on and the new parts I bought were inexpensive.
good luck whatever you decide to do.
JimComment
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I’ve heard dire warnings about new transmission bearings for the last two years, did that get resolved? Have we found a good supplier? (“Swap meets” is not a supplier)Comment
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Tom Endy has written two recent articles on this : https://www.santaanitaas.org/tom-endys-tech-articles/Originally posted by alexiskai View Post
well worth reading. I’m not aware of a more recent update.
JimComment
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Yeah, Tom is the particular prophet of doom I had in mind.Originally posted by conaway2 View PostComment
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About 12 years ago, I bought a Model A out of the US. The previous owner never checked the oil level in the gear box. As a result, it was lower than VERY low. The big gear at the front of the lower shaft was just dipping oil but enough to throw an oily mist around in there. The gears were badly galled (everything else on the car was fantastic so I believe the gear box was completely rebuilt with new gears when the car was restored). Most would have thrown them away and rebuilt it again but I flushed it well several times, then replaced the bearings, flushed it again and put a magnet on the drain plug. Some 20-25 thousand miles later, it is still going just fine.Originally posted by Kevin in NJ View Post
While what you say is correct, I believe there are plenty of good gears tossed out. It's a judgement call made on experience, IMOComment
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winter has set in and thinking of options. Would like to bump my speed from 45 to maybe 55. Would also like to do some longer distance touring. So-being new to the model A I'm looking at the four speed transmission conversions. People in Texas and California seem to have good ones and would look clean inside There is the mitchell overdrive but puts another shifter inside. But all kinds of gears. ...12-08-2017, 06:04 PM -
I installed a Mitchell overdrive in my car so far I find it a little stiff to get into high but it is getting better Steve @ Mitchell told me this takes about 100 miles for it to break in. I really like it since it improves the jump from 2d to 3d quite a bit. If you are a touring type it is a nice item to have. One other thing I like about it at a stoplight shift the od into neutral and change...10-20-2017, 08:34 AM -
Go to a national meet, and you'll see that a large percentage of the Model A's that are driven are sporting a Mitchell Overdrive. That extra shifter in the car is the tell tale sign. I just posted a news letter tech article which tells of the advantages when using the gear split in different situations and not just for high gear. The O/D units cost in the area of roughly 2,400.00 but do seem to give...01-30-2019, 07:48 AM -
I tried to research options for saving $$ by possibly installing a 4 or 5 speed tranny. The Michell continues to rise in price and last I heard they were out a ways on delivery. I found that Modelaonly no longer has a web site and the only article I found it was necessary to cut out part of the crossmember. I see AA bell housings and adapters on fleabay but the adapters are for use on Mustangs. Am...05-27-2017, 01:31 PM -
I've been reading about the Mitchell Overdrive. This is meant for those members who installed one or had one installed. What is your opinion of the Mitchell. Is it worth the bucks? Thank you in advance....12-11-2020, 11:38 AM -
I have a good friend who is seriously wanting to get into Model A's. He has looked at a couple in the last month but both had some serious body work issues and that is the one thing he does not want to get into. He did see a very good 1932 Model B pickup but is asking me about the differences. He is concerned that those parts would not be easily available like the Model A. I know I could probably...03-02-2021, 08:59 AM -
Need a little help for friend with a AA. See, he is looking at a few more MPH out of the beastie and called Mitchell and they can sell him the 'in driveshaft" 2 speed.
I remember in my youth a transmission of sorts that went between the 4 speed and driveshaft but really don't remember if that was just a PTO or an actual over/under trans or something of the like. Need info on what...07-24-2018, 05:07 PM -
Any ideas besides fabricating new parts or cutting my frame to make this Mitchell OD work without interference? Thinking a rod with a U-shaped channel to clear the frame and battery box or a longer shifter pivot arm linking the rod to the OD.
Running a '39 synchro top loader tranny while I rebuild my '30 tranny. The aftermarket Model A frame (I think aftermarket) appears to not match...02-09-2022, 12:02 PM -
Just for the heck of it I bought a flathead v-8 aba. It has an oil pan from a truck and the cast iron hogs head adapter and the corresponding plate for the starter. If I get really energetic I would like to build a frame and run an open drive shaft setup. I see that modern 5 speed with the over drive is really recommended by a lot of people but I am retired and that tranny isn't in my budget. I had...08-09-2021, 04:54 PM
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