I have an idea that I need help with...

[DaWizard]

I'm not sure how many of you remember me placing the 1¾" od washer with 1" id in the exit hose of my radiator.

Well, it has been doing a great job of restricting the flow out of the radiator and helping keeping the water in the radiator to allow it to cool more.

Well, the thought I have been working on is putting something on the order of a heater valve in the lower hose so I can adjust the restriction instead of needing to remove the washer and change it out with another washer with a smaller or larger hole for the restriction.

So, to get to the meat of my needed help, I can't find a valve I can hook a choke cable to and be able to adjust it for the 1¾" hose. Everything I have found is either 5/8" or 3/4".

So any and all you folk out in farm country that have access to farm equipment, take a look see what is available around your area and post what you find with a link so I can see what I can do to aid the Ford cooling system.

See, I know my 1" hole restriction works, I just want to improve on it.

Or fix it til it's broke!

Just like this but to fit 1¾ pipe.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4085564-DOD...em5d295cbe8b:m

[CarlG]

Try looking for a PVC Ball Valve at Home Depot. I saw one there that was 1.5", might be close enough for what you want.

[DaWizard]

Why didn't I think of that? See, over thinking it.

[Mitch]

That's a good idea Carl

[DaWizard]

I was kinda hoping to find one like in the link so I could adjust it from in the car, but I doubt that would happen with a plastic ball valve unless I can make a longer handle and get more leverage. My experiences with those valves has been they require a lot of turning force. We'll see.

[Terry, NJ]

Use a solid rod instead of a cable. With an extension on the 1/4 turn, valve handle, an arm if you will. But it means extra holes in the cowl. Plus you would have drill a hold, maybe two, so it can't be 100% closed.
Terry

[Standing Elk]

How about a brass ball valve? They use a lever to adjust the valve and do not turn as stiff as the PVC valves do.

[CarlG]

The only reason I suggested a PVC valve is that it would be an inexpensive way to test out a theory. If that worked, then go to the much more expensive bronze/brass valves.

[DaWizard]

Thanks Carl, I understand and am thankful for the input.

[Captndan]

Idea good. PVC no. Bronze/ss yes. Try your best to find a valve not made in China.

[Curly]

Following.

[BNCHIEF]

You will find brass valves to be expensive, i am thinking of a motorized valve in maybe surplus let me check with my brother he works in a powerplant which means it is servo driven just like the heater valve i used in my heater install.

[DaWizard]

I await your checking with your brother. If it were servo driven I can make a rheostat to control voltage to the servo to get proper opening.

[BNCHIEF]

That is my thinking we used them all over the place in the refinery now price may be an issue but might be able to scrounge something will work on it for you.

[DaWizard]

Give'er a shot Chief, this is a project still in the brain bending stage, I got time.

[Fixitphil]

Will PVC take the heat? Or would it have to be CPVC?

[DaWizard]

good thought Phil, but the PVC valves I saw were good to 270º

[Fixitphil]

Sounds good then..........

[DaWizard]

Ok, went to the Despot today and checked over the valves they have. ALL the valves that came close to 1¾od were stiffer than a wedding ****. Those would NOT be able to be adjusted on the fly, which is kinda the purpose I had intended. So, maybe tomorrow I go to Pipe Supply and see what they can come up with. I am still really hoping to find a heater control valve for a farm implement.

[BNCHIEF]

I have researched and found nothing yet that would work very well, what about putting a thermostat in the hose where it mounts on the side of the engine? Drill 4 1/8" holes in it so you get a little bypass. The valve are all expensive, or bulky. I have searched for a water control vale like the heater valve but so far no luck in 1.5 ".

[Tom Wesenberg]

I don't think restricting the inlet is a good idea because it can lead to cavitation at the water pump impellor.

Have you seen what cavitation can do to a boat prop?

Since the Model A was built, the car makers have discovered it's better to push the coolant through the engine, rather than pull it through.

[DaWizard]

Tom, I am not restricting the inlet to the radiator, a thermostat will do that nicely, and can cause that cavitation. I am restricting the outlet of the radiator, I already have a 1¾ flat washer on the outlet, with a 1" hole that slows the water down some, what I would like to do is be able to adjust that restriction from inside the car to see if I can balance the time in the radiator to cool, to the temperature of the engine. The washer is already holding the water a little longer in the radiator to cool it. I am hoping to get a wider than 20º spread in temperature from the outlet of the engine to the inlet of the engine. And before you ask, yes, the radiator is clean and as far as I can tell, working well. I mean, a 20º spread from outlet of the engine, to the inlet of the engine seems pretty good to me, I just want more and I can't find anything in print that compares the outlet temperature to the inlet temperature to tell me IF the radiator is doing it's best.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I was speaking of restricting the inlet to the water pump, not the radiator. My original radiator also gives a 20 degree drop in temp.

[plyfor]

I've discussed the stat issue with some A builders, and in mild climates, they suggest omitting it, also in keeping with what's stated in post 11. Some of the new water pumps offered may have shaved impellers to slow down the flow.?

[Fordmanm1931]

The shaved impellers were made to keep from pushing coolant out of the overflow at higher speeds. Which is also lower flow.

[CM2]

Your are going to meet a point of reduced returns,the block needs a threshold of flow to cool correctly.Ford designed the A with the thermo siphon effect he used with the T,basically hot water rises,he aided this with a pump.Restricting flow slows the effect.your basically slowing down the entire system,not just the half that stays in the radiator,essentially the water in the block gets hotter along with the radiator water getting cooler,net gain might be less that what your hoping for.

[DaWizard]

This may be true, but I will not know unless I can test my theory. I am not trying to reinvent the wheel, I am trying to do more than just sit here on my butt and theorize. Experience is the best teacher, and unless you have already done the mechanical experience and have test results of that experience I want to try myself and put my theory to the test. I can't find any data within my searching to validate nor crush my theory.

It is fact that the radiator outlet is smaller than the radiator inlet, I am wondering just how much testing was done in 1927 to see what effect it has on the cooling. I have already reduced the flow of coolant out of the radiator with what I believe some success. I would like to know just how much restriction I can do lazily. If I can't find a suitable valve, I will do it the hard way by changing the washer.

[CM2]

Took two types of physicists to build the atomic bomb,theoreticians and experimentalists...those who thought about it and those who actually did it.I'm merely offering a scenario when your results don't meet your expectations.Forge ahead..Ive been thinking about your valve,it doesnt have to be perfect but it has to avoid creating turbulence to not interrupt thermosiphon..I was thinking an old venturi from a zenith?A cone that has a washer on the outlet (like a collar) to minimize turbulence?

[Tom Wesenberg]

If you have a lower pipe that you don't mind drilling a couple holes in, you can install a shaft and disc to make your own valve.
The bottom hole can be closed to prevent leakage, but you'll need to seal the top hole for the shaft and lever.

[DaWizard]

Yes, I was thinking about placing a butterfly like the choke in a carburetor, but right now I don't have a lower pipe to experiment on, though that is not beyond the realm of possibility.
Oh, wait, I do have an extra lower tube to experiment on, now I need to make a butterfly valve. Oh, the light has come on and I have my work cut out for me in the next weeks. My brain is already churning with ideas.

[Dennis]

Why don't you try a bypass from your upper outlet with a valve in between going to your inlet pipe. I did that but with a coolant filter in between and I can tell you right now even with the orifice in the filter housing the water going in the side of the block is warmer than the water at the bottom of the radiator. That can be slowed down with a simple heater valve mentioned earlier in this thread. The problem with restricting flow in the radiator is the pump pumping too much water to the radiator and the level getting too high. I have come to the conclusion my pump is pumping way too much flow at higher RPM's and the water doesn't have a chance to cool in the radiator. My new leakless pump impellor was rubbing slightly in the new cylinder head and I had to trim a little. I don't think the answer to the problem is slowing down the pump speed as you will be slowing down the fan speed also, so I think the impellor needs to be trimmed more. Have you tried that yet? Anybody else here doubt that?

[DaWizard]

Dennis, unlike most other heads I have found that mine doesn't have the spike hole into the head, nor does it have all the impeller area as the others have. I have removed the end spike and and about a ¼" of the impeller off my pump to allow it to clear inside the head so I am running at a reduced rate of coolant flow out of the engine. I don't think it is a lot different from others, but it is different. Also, if you remember, I am still running the electric fan, so fan speed is not really an issue for me. But you do make me think.

I don't want to bypass the coolant, I just want to slow it down in the radiator to give it more time to cool. I now have a 20º differential between the outlet of the engine, and the inlet to the engine. If I can even get another 5º I will call it a success. I would like to keep it in the radiator long enough to get another 10º differential, but I don't know if I can do that without over heating the engine.

One other thing that is on the back burner is a "C" head that I have and as soon as I can get it surfaced and the correct gasket for it, I may install that. So, this is a brain cell burner, but one step at a time.

[Dennis]

The C head, what gasket are you thinking about getting for it? I have a Best graphite on mine, holds good torque and doesn't seep or leak a drop.

[DaWizard]

Oh, definitely a Best gasket. I am just wondering where to buy it from. I may take the short trip up to Egge in Santa Fe Springs, and maybe visit McMaster Carr at the same time.

[Dennis]

AER in Skokie, IL sells them. If you call the other vendors they might have them. I thought I saw it once on Snyder's.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I'm not understanding why you want more temperature difference at the radiator inlet and outlet, since the temp of the radiator doesn't matter.

It's only the temp of the engine that matters, and keeping it about 180 to 195 is what I consider ideal. I use a 180 stat and everything is fine.

I agree that the coolant is pumped into the radiator at a faster rate than needed, and a thermostat slows it to a good rate of flow.

[DaWizard]

The stat keeps the water in the engine, I want to keep the water in the radiator where it can cool it more. My thinking is, the cooler coming into the engine, the better cooling of the engine.

[BNCHIEF]

On flathead v8 engines we used a washer to slow the pump flow down.

[Mitch]

So by restricting the outlet of the radiator will that raise the level in the top tank? Could this cause a puking issue? I’m also wondering about the effect it may have on keeping the block filled to capacity

[Tom Wesenberg]

So by restricting the outlet of the radiator will that raise the level in the top tank? Could this cause a puking issue? I’m also wondering about the effect it may have on keeping the block filled to capacity

Exactly my thoughts. I see trouble brewing.
When the junk left the rear of my block and plugged some radiator tubes, the top tank filled and went out the overflow.
That's what caused my engine to go through several loss of coolant, then overheats, until I finally got all the junk cleaned out.

[Dennis]

That was the point I was trying to get across in post #17. I like the way you put that Mitch. A puking issue. If you restrict the inlet, you might start to cavitate at the top of the engine, that causes cylinder head and block cracking from my experience in the past.

I always thought that is why the overflow tank on a modern system is pressurized. Before that the expansion or overflow tank was from pressure and high level in the radiator and would not go back into the radiator until it cooled and contracted.

Pros and cons to a thermostat, a Model A engine wasn't designed to have one and this presents a problem. Cold climates might be ok to run a thermostat, warm climates not a good idea.