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  • #1

    Transmission Noise Guidance

    TRANSMISSION NOISE
    FORD MODEL A


    Symptom: Noise from transmission, effected by clutch pedal movement.

    Clutch Throw Out Bearing Noise: high-pitched rubbing noise with only slight
    pressure on clutch.

    Pilot Bearing Noise: high-pitched noise when clutch is fully depressed.

    Noise When Clutch Pedal Depressed:
    -throw out bearing, worn, damaged, inadequately lubricated
    -pilot bearing (in flywheel) worn, damaged, inadequately lubricated
    -crankshaft end play should be checked

    Noise When Clutch Pedal Released:
    -Transmission oil level low
    -Misalignment of transmission (more noticeable at low road speed)
    -Clutch disk hub loose
    -Clutch disk springs weak, popped out of cage, or broken
    -Weak or broken return spring on throw out bearing sleeve
    -Sticking throw out bearing sleeve (clean slider, lubricate)
    -Transmission roller bearings worn, damaged, inadequately lubricated
    -Transmission gear damage.

    Other deceiving noises that can “travel” include noise from speedometer cable, starter Bendix, generator bearing/bushing, and water pump bearing.

    Firstly, grease the throwout bearing sleeve. If noise is eliminated, good.

    Secondly, if noise still around, adjust the clutch for one inch of free play. If noise is eliminated, good.

    Thirdly, if noise is still present, the transmission will need to be separated from engine. Best to remove rear end and drive train, unless major engine work is required and, if so, then take it out as a unit with the engine.



    Notes:
    1. This is to diagnose noise coming from transmission and does not address clutch drag/slippage/chattering/pulsating/slippage out-of-gear/lock-up.
    1. The Model A transmission takes three “needle” or roller bearings and two sealed bearings. Needle bearings should have their axles poking through their collars, not set into dimples in the collars.
    1. On my two rebuilds I used Bratton’s for parts and cannibalized a decent cluster gear set from an old transmission. Snyders and Berts have received many favorable comments on their transmission parts over the years, also. Buy quality and buy it once. Inspect what you buy for small rust spots (too long on the shelf).
    1. Strongly recommend reading Tom Endy’s articles on the Model A Transmission, found here: http://www.santaanitaas.org/technica...tech-articles/
    1. Good pictures of transmission components can be found by purchasing a set of Model A Shop drawings from MAFCA here: https://mafca.com/cart/index.php?productID=177
    1. Vince Falter’s FordGarage has an informative, animated video on transmission gear changing created by a VFF member, here: http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/modlintransmission.htm
    1. I discarded my failed needle bearings years ago without taking pictures. One bearing had disintegrated into a handful of rollers with damaged end rings.
    1. Most rebuilders strongly recommend against using STP in a Model A Transmission.
    Last edited by BudP; 02-11-2018, 10:31 AM.
    Tags: None
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  • #2
    Ton of good info there.
    Thank you
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    • #3
      Originally posted by BudP View Post
      Firstly, grease the throwout bearing sleeve. If noise is eliminated, good.

      Secondly, if noise still around, adjust the clutch for one inch of free play. If noise is eliminated, good.
      Bud this is an excellent writeup. As far as the above first and second instructions, I would almost reverse them. To many, checking the free play first would be the way to go. There are a lot of clutches out there with improper free play, and of course that is a good way to damage a throwout bearing

      Dave
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      • #4
        Nice work Bud, Flywheel housing runout is often overlooked,proper alignment of the transmission to crankshaft is critical to avoid alot of the issues you cite.
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        • #5
          good job Bud
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          • #6
            There ya go Bud more needed feedback. Do these corrections and then I will post it in the tech area.

            Here is the original thread when Bud posted this up.
            Throwout Bearing/Pilot Bearing Issue Diagnosis - Vintage Ford Forum
            https://www.vintagefordforum.com/forum/model-a/59702-throwout-bearing-pilot-bearing-issue-diagnosis
            Over the years I have had two throwout bearings go on me, one with bad consequences because I tried to drive home rather than call AAA. This Saturday I will be


            We needed more feedback, thanks all

            3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
            Henry Ford said,
            "It's all nuts and bolts"
            "Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."
            Mitch's Auto Service ctr
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            • #7
              Final draft Thanks for all the feedback!!

              TRANSMISSION NOISE
              FORD MODEL A


              Symptom: Noise from transmission, effected by clutch pedal movement.

              Clutch Throw Out Bearing Noise: high-pitched rubbing noise with only slight
              pressure on clutch.

              Pilot Bearing Noise: high-pitched noise when clutch is fully depressed.

              Noise When Clutch Pedal Depressed:
              -throw out bearing, worn, damaged, inadequately lubricated
              -pilot bearing (in flywheel) worn, damaged, inadequately lubricated
              -crankshaft end play should be checked

              Noise When Clutch Pedal Released:
              -Transmission oil level low
              -Misalignment of transmission (more noticeable at low road speed)
              -Clutch disk hub loose
              -Clutch disk springs weak, popped out of cage, or broken
              -Weak or broken return spring on throw out bearing sleeve
              -Sticking throw out bearing sleeve (clean slider, lubricate)
              -Transmission roller bearings worn, damaged, inadequately lubricated
              -Transmission gear damage.

              Other deceiving noises that can “travel” include noise from speedometer cable, starter Bendix, generator bearing/bushing, and water pump bearing.

              Firstly, adjust the clutch for one inch of free play. If noise is eliminated, good.

              Secondly, grease the throwout bearing sleeve. If noise is eliminated, good.

              Thirdly, if noise is still present, the transmission will need to be separated from engine. Best to remove rear end and drive train, unless major engine work is required and, if so, then take it out as a unit with the engine.



              Notes:
              1. This is to diagnose noise coming from transmission and does not address clutch drag/slippage/chattering/pulsating/slippage out-of-gear/lock-up.
              1. The Model A transmission takes three “needle” or roller bearings and two sealed bearings. Needle bearings should have their axles poking through their collars, not set into dimples in the collars.
              1. On my two rebuilds I used Bratton’s for parts and cannibalized a decent cluster gear set from an old transmission. Snyders and Berts have received many favorable comments on their transmission parts over the years, also. Buy quality and buy it once. Inspect what you buy for small rust spots (too long on the shelf).
              1. Strongly recommend reading Tom Endy’s articles on the Model A Transmission, found here: http://www.santaanitaas.org/technica...tech-articles/
              1. Good pictures of transmission components can be found by purchasing a set of Model A Shop drawings from MAFCA here: https://mafca.com/cart/index.php?productID=177
              1. Vince Falter’s FordGarage has an informative, animated video on transmission gear changing created by a VFF member, here: http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/modlintransmission.htm
              1. I discarded my failed needle bearings years ago without taking pictures. One bearing had disintegrated into a handful of rollers with damaged end rings.
              1. Most rebuilders strongly recommend against using STP in a Model A Transmission.
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              • Mitch
                #7.1
                Mitch commented
                02-11-2018, 12:59 PM
                Editing a comment
                Bud your up and running in the PT tech forum. Now to add additional trans info onto that thread
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            • #8
              I'm running about 40% STP with 600W in mine.
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              • #9
                should be fine. I had 85-90 synthetic gear oil in Miles' slant, all rebuilt, needed something thicker to slow the gears down, added an entire tube of grease, works fine
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                • #10
                  And REMEMBER, some "abnormal" first & second gear noise is very "normal" for a Model A! This ain't no ROLLS-ROYCE
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