I was cleaning the block today getting ready to put the pan back on , while i was under Clyde i started to look around at the bottom side of the motor, im going to show my ignorance again but i will ask.....i noticed the crank has had holes drilled in the end of the lobs (counter weight) and the lobs look as though they have been welded on, i thought these motors where not balanced????? and i thought the crank was cast???. Im guessing by this that the engine has been gone through????? also the rear main bearing drain tube has been installed with orange RTV (the RTV supplier must have made a fortune on the re builder its every where). the nuts on the rod caps are castle nuts with cotter pins. Not sure why they didn't use lock washers.I think i can see cross hatch on cylinder walls thats good. Does it sound like the engine has been rebuilt????
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Motor Questions
Collapse
X
-
Sure sounds like the motor has been overhauled.
This is a Model A motor, correct? not a Model B?
The cranks were forged, not cast. Forged is much better, very strong.
Counterweights have been added if you see them welded on.
A properly installed drain tube does not require RTV I have to wonder just what was done there.
Lock washers on rod caps is a risky business; lock washers can fracture. Castle nuts with cotters were Ford OEM.
Do you see cross hatching all the way up as far as possible for the pistons that are top dead center? Or just below where the rings contact, ie the very bottom of the bore where the rings never touch. If up as far as you can see, it doesn't seem the motor has many miles on it, OR moly rings were used, which take forever to seat. We prefer iron rings here. Anyway, the cross hatching to me is a non-issue.
The real question is how did the motor run before you dropped the pan and what made you decide to drop the pan?Last edited by tbirdtbird; 02-05-2018, 10:25 PM.
- Top
- Bottom
-
Ill take pics in the am and post (im at work keeping the flying public safe)Well the engine number on the block suggests it is a 1929 block.....but the head is a Model B as well as the pump, and no oil filter. The crank doesnt look like Model A pics on the internet.....but i really dont know what a real model A crank looks like.Last edited by Chevmn56; 02-05-2018, 10:25 PM.
- Top
- Bottom
-
Yeah it ran pretty good had a little miss at idle but for a old car it ran well. The reason for dropping the pan was it seemed everything leaked like a sieve (sp) and in all the reading on this forum everyone said to drop the pan and check for sludge etc......i figured i could reseal stuff and paint it up and make it period correct as i go . Ill check the tube....is it screwed in or pressed in?? Ill get some pics in the am of the walls, tube and welded lobes.... LMAO this has turned into one long tune up....it all started the a B timing cover(which has been changed) and it keeps going lol i wish the postal service was faster from Berts and Snyders....i think you fellers call it some kind of BUG!!!!
- Top
- Bottom
-
First engine stock model A,second engine early model B with welded on counterweights..Counterweighted crankshaft is good.youre lucky.You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 2 photos.
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
WOW.......my crank is definatley the B.....shit can a B crank be ran in a Model A block????? What did they gain by having a B crank in a A block ?????? im really kind of confused/pissed....so everything i have been doing is to return it to Model A correct with period correct parts etc. Now im worried it wont start.Last edited by Chevmn56; 02-05-2018, 10:49 PM.
- Top
- Bottom
-
Not necessarily,its a good thing to have a B crank,if you do.Most likely its a model a crank with welded weights.A B crank in an A engine requires regrinding the main journals to 1.600 for babbit,1.800 for insert bearings,then using B rods with the full size B rod journals.If your engine is otherwise stock doubtful its a B crank,more often than not its an A with welded weights,instead of buying a counterweighted crankshaft from Burlington or Scat the machinist welds on his own and balances it. B crank in an A engine is Banger stuff that takes more money than,well,more money
- Top
- Bottom
-
When I install a 3/8 drain pipe I usually only tap out enough to get the tube started with 4 or so threads, then do a punch on the face right at the threads to set the pipe, this will keep it from turning and hold it in the cap. Some pictures would be nice. I look forward to seeing up your motor.
IF you find the pipe needs more than about 4 threads to hold it snug and if it is like the available pipes, I would take half the threads off so you only have about 4 threads left on the pipe then thread it in until you butt up against the end thread then lightly peen it to set the thread to hold it.
Ok, in case that wasn't clear, I took some pictures.
Cap drain hole.jpgIn this picture you can see that the thickness to the drain hole in the cap is only about 6 threads and this is with the 5/16 tube hole.
Cap drain hole plug.jpgThis picture shows the drain hole plug. Now, you may thing the is not enough meat between the plug and end of cap to dimple it, but it don't take a lot to make the dimple, can be done with one of them self punching center punch. It don't take much.
drain tube.jpgHere is the 3/8 drain tube, and if you are going from 5/16 to 3/8 tube, use a 1/8 pipe tap and only thread enough to get about 3 or 4 threads of the new tube in it, that is all it takes, then punch it.Last edited by DaWizard; 02-05-2018, 11:11 PM.You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by DaWizard View PostI would take half the threads off so you only have about 4 threads left on the pipe then thread it in until you butt up against the end thread then lightly peen it to set the thread to hold it.
The pipe doesnt need to be any set length???
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
Some rebuilders tap the bearing cap to 3/8-32 and braze the tube to the cap after it's screwed in. You should also pop that soft plug off after the tube is screwed on and make sure there is no restriction at least where the tube is screwed on. I'll dig up a couple photos that show where some of your oil leak can be from. Also beings you have a crank that has counterweights welded on you won't be able to get the main bearing cap off without pulling the engine out. If it were me I'd leave it alone if the tube isn't loose. Most likely it's been changed to a 3/8" tube and measuring will verify that.
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
Some rebuilders tap the bearing cap to 3/8-32 and braze the tube to the cap after it's screwed in.
Originally Ford applied the little steel weld booger to make sure the tube did not move.
On 1928-29 forged steel caps he could have electric welded, but the 30-31's were primarily iron, and those might have been gas welded, though they look like TIG in most cases. Many welds were poor quality and have hairline cracks on caps I have looked at. (and I am OCD about looking at things like this!)
For replacement I agree with you to braze them, but don't spend a lot of time on the cap with a gas torch.
I would use the longer thread length and notch the end of the tube to ensure it does not block the oil passage hole in the cap. More threads is more better!Last edited by Guest; 02-06-2018, 01:34 AM.
- Top
- Bottom
-
"I would use the longer thread length and notch the end of the tube to ensure it does not block the oil passage hole in the cap. More threads is more better!"
And that is why I mentioned removing the plug on the side of the cap and checking for restriction.
- Top
- Bottom
-
Ok here are some pictures of a Model A with a counterbalanced crank and is early 29 block, like you determined yours is. I'll make a couple or more postings with a picture so I don't confuse you. First picture is the tube in the main bearing cap. Also look for brass shims at each of the main bearing caps. Do you see any? Also look for shims at the connecting rods. This way we can determine if you have babitted block and or connecting rods. Notice how close the tube is to the counterweight.You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 1 photos.
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
Will do ill snap pictures of the rod and main bearings cuz i would like to know if i have babbits or not to ....just to know.....the tube looks as though it is slanted to the front of the motor...man that is close to the weight......i did notice numbers stamped into the rod caps.....we do that on the V8s to keep the caps paired with the same rod...so if there is brass shims at the connecting rods what does that mean babitt or insert???.
- Top
- Bottom
-
Dennis- Thanks for the input ill defiantly do that but i seriously i think that the tube is only a couple inches long....if it needs to be at oil level i dont think it will reach but i will know in the am.Can i install a new tube with the cap still attached???
Tom- I do know the the pan gasket was leaking along with the front seal....the rear had some leakage but not like the others (the car had been sitting for a long timeand the oil plug copper gasket was as thin as paper and dripping.......but i do have one narley ugly leaking coming out of the speedo cable!!!!!..........if i blow back through the drain pipe should it be fairly easy to do or is it just a little air?
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
Here's another of the main bearing cap and the aluminum seal all Model A engines have. Notice the black triangle with the arrow pointing to it. You DO NOT WANT TO SEE THIS or it can be a problem with an early block with a forged main bearing cap as this one is. The brass shims used to cover that area and the aluminum seal was shaped to fill that triangle area on the original seal. Some new seals are made different and this is a potential leak area. Ask me how I know. This engine has a counter balanced crank with inserts, therefore you don't see shims on the sides of the bearing caps. Some rebuilders use RTV on the outer edge of the rear main to prevent leaks plus the bolt and nut gets glued up.You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 1 photos.
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
How to fix that hole that is in photo above... a nice glob of RTV after the block and cap are thoroughly clean and dry both sides. Trust me it works. You will not see this when the inspection cover is on.You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 1 photos.
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by CM2 View PostYour engine had a B timing cover and you switched to an A?
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
-
The rest hope it helps.You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 4 photos.Last edited by Chevmn56; 02-06-2018, 12:34 PM.
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
That cap looks like it could have a shim, but kinda hard to be sure.
That tube looks ok the way it is cut, but sure looks nasty inside. Clean that thing out. The cut should be on the opposite edge from the bend, The bend points forward, the cut faces back.Last edited by DaWizard; 02-06-2018, 12:37 PM.You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
It's hard for me to tell. Is that tube 3/8th?
Don't screw it in to far, only a few turns or you'll block the oil flow from the cap. It's best to spot tack / braze them in place3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
Henry Ford said,
"It's all nuts and bolts"
"Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."
Mitch's Auto Service ctr
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by CM2 View PostFirst engine stock model A,second engine early model B with welded on counterweights..Counterweighted crankshaft is good.youre lucky.
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
Related Topics
Collapse
-
by Tom BellfoyFirst of all this was not my attempt
What can you knowledgable Model A guys tell me about this attempt to balance this A motor ?
here are the facts:
- The motor has only about 5 hours on it after rebuild and balanced.
- no matter the positioning of the flywheel in relation to the pressure plate it would shake the fillings out of your teeth.
- using a fairly accurate kitchen...You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 2 photos.-
Channel: Model A Forum
07-22-2017, 08:40 PM -
-
Just took compression on my new motor with about 100 mile s on it.
Cylinder 1 is 70#, other 3 Are 63#. Will the 3 lower reading rise as the motor breaks in?...-
Channel: Model A Forum
04-03-2019, 03:44 PM -
-
by tbirdtbirdMany Model A owners will need their engine overhauled at some point. There are great many questions that come up when this occurs. We strongly encourage owners to do careful research, as there seems to be a lot of shops that claim they know engine building, but few that really do. Questions such as, babbitt or inserts, ring gaps, piston-to-cyl wall clearance, piston choices, camshaft choices, proper...
-
Channel: Model A Forum
04-30-2017, 07:39 PM -
-
by GreynomadI have a motor that was tarted up by a not very skilled workshop over there before I bought the car. After a few miles, I find that the wrist pins are loose in 3 cylinders, the pistons have been expanded and a few other things done. The only way to fix this motor properly is to rebore it and treat it to a new set of pistons, rings etc but it has been sleeved at some time and then taken out to 0.060"...
-
Channel: Model A Forum
09-12-2019, 12:27 AM -
-
by gpowersI know this is probably another dumb question from a first time Model Aer but I was thinking it might be worthwhile to purchase an extra motor or transmission for spare parts if I had the opportunity. I have come across a complete motor and transmission for $300. The guy doesn't know what it came out of but says it turns over by hand. The only thing missing from the motor that I can tell from the...
-
Channel: Model A Forum
02-14-2019, 05:58 PM -
-
by FixitphilAgain I'm new at this game and haven't seen much, but this situation does not seem right. Give me your input please.
I'm getting a new engine so I tore the old engine down to see what it was like.
1. I found one of the rods had a 1.5 in long weight welded inside the web. Nothing on the other side.
2. Second rod had a 3" weight welded to each side of the rod.
3. Third...You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 1 photos.-
Channel: Model A Forum
08-12-2018, 12:03 PM -
-
by ahirtThese engines are amazing. The amount of abuse they can take and keep on ticking is incredible. Here is my story. I bought my first Model A about 4 years ago. Overpaid, didn't know what I was doing. But the engine ran and cosmetically it was sound so I figured, what the heck, I can fix anything that needs fixing. The first thing was steering; the car wandered all over the place. I had to aim it, not...You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 3 photos.-
Channel: Model A Forum
03-12-2019, 03:44 PM -
-
by BillEbobWe were finally able to get to the Vicky this past Saturday. As my friend said, “if you’re going to have major engine problems, this is the kind to have!”
After removing the pan, we saw “a lot” of babbitt in the splash pan. Further investigation showed that #1 piston bearing was coming apart.
The good news is that it is ONLY that one! The others are all fine....-
Channel: Model A Forum
11-12-2018, 09:09 PM -
-
When I first got my car I took it to a local rebuilder to have the engine looked over. He took out some shims and buttoned things up. Several tours later I started to hear some engine noise and noticed about 3/16 of shiny crank shaft at the front of the engine. I dropped the pan and found all the connecting rod caps had tiny loose cotter pins. some were broken and in the oil pan.They served no...
-
Channel: Model A Forum
11-09-2017, 03:16 PM -
-
by MitchI'll start by saying do not attempt to run the motor on the fuel supply from the tank. Pumping debris or old crap gas into the carburetor is never a good thing. This can cause your valves and rings to stick. It will also mess up a good working carburetor.
Hang an auxiliary fuel supply with fresh gas gravity fed directly to the carburetor....-
Channel: Miscellaneous Info
04-10-2018, 09:37 AM -
Unconfigured Ad Widget
Collapse
Comment