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anyone up for a gasahol thread?

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  • anyone up for a gasahol thread?

    there have been numerous pix of the deposits, crusting, clogging, and fouling of fuel lines and carbs from gasahol. Meantime, others seem to have no problems with this fuel. In our cars and customer cars we use 4 oz MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) per 10 gallons of gasahol to help offset these effects. Also, if you were around in the sixties and earlier, you may recall how slippery gasoline felt running it through your fingers. (we cleaned parts all the time with gasoline; never thought twice about it). Today's fuel has a very dry feel to it. So, who knows what the refiners have done, but at least with MMO you also get some upper cyl/valve train lube. A good way to prevent sticking valves.

    If you have worked on cars for even a few years, then you have prolly experienced stuck valves. In our shop we have actually freed up stuck valves by running MMO in the gas and a QT in the crankcase, got the engine up to fast idle, and when the motor got hot thanked the valve gods as one by one the cyls. with the stuck valves came back on-line. Most recently we freed up valves this way in a '54 Packard straight 8, which was only running on 4 cyls. Purrs now, tho. Generally, tho, we do not use it in the crankcase.
    Overall, your best bet is to use pure gasoline, without ethanol, if it is available in your area. I'd still add MMO for upper cyl and valve lube, however.
    Last edited by tbirdtbird; 05-01-2017, 11:00 PM.

  • #2
    What tbirdtbird said,,::
    Any kind of fuel system lubrication additive is very helpful. Personally i am not a fan of thinning out the oil with it, but many do use it in the oil along with the fuel. Here is a modern fuel pump we did at the shop which sat in ethanol for close to two years. The dang thing was eaten through and i wont get into how long the smell sticks to your skin.
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    3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
    Henry Ford said,
    "It's all nuts and bolts"
    "Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."

    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

    Comment


    • EarlyBert
      EarlyBert commented
      Editing a comment
      OMG, that looks like a bio-hazard!!

  • #3
    yep, ethanol is corrosive as are many alcohols. The shelf life of gasahol has been said to be 90 days, at which time the two components begin to separate out. Then the real trouble begins.

    Comment


    • #4
      I, personally, have had NO (ZILCH-NADA) problems with Gasohol, except for LOWER gas mileage.
      "Maybe" ours' is a different blend??? Fortunately ours' is a DRY climate, which lessens the accumulation of WATER in the tank.
      Bill W. & Buster T.

      Comment


      • #5
        Bill, i bet the dry climate has something to do with this....dave

        Comment


        • #6
          I too have read that the shelf life is about 3 months. Interestingly, the premium fuel in my motorcycle is way past 3 months old. I'd venture to say that it's about a year old and it's still running fine in my bike. I'm trying to hurry up and use it all up.

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by Mitch View Post
            What tbirdtbird said,,::
            the Model A motor is not getting much of any valve guide lubrication. Any kind of fuel system lubrication additive is very helpful. Personally i am not a fan of thinning out the oil with it, but many do use it in the oil along with the fuel. Here is a modern fuel pump we did at the shop which sat in ethanol for close to two years. The dang thing was eaten through and i wont get into how long the smell sticks to your skin.
            While 10% Ethanol is available here, every service station sells mostly straight fuel. I've been adding a lead replacement fir a while now and I'm sure it is leaving a carbon deposit in the head which accumulates till I hear a tapping sound as the part of the piston above the top ring touches the carbon. What is the opinion out there on adding a little diesel fuel to a tank of petrol. My late father in law swore that dong that would ruin the engine. He was no slouch with a spanner so I'm reluctant to do it without checking first.

            Comment


            • #8
              not sure a touch of diesel would harm anything, really. In our shop we like to add some MMO Marvel Mystery Oil; prolly not a whole lot different than a touch of diesel....they are both lubricants. Would love to hear other opinions on this. The tapping sound might be more of a mystery to me

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by tbirdtbird View Post
                not sure a touch of diesel would harm anything, really. In our shop we like to add some MMO Marvel Mystery Oil; prolly not a whole lot different than a touch of diesel....they are both lubricants. Would love to hear other opinions on this. The tapping sound might be more of a mystery to me
                That noise had me stumped for quite a while till I decided there was nothing for it, I'd have to strip the engine down and check it out. The carbon had left score marks on the side of the piston above the top ring. I removed the carbon and when I reassembled it, the noise was gone. Needless to say, I have stopped using that product and the noise has not returned, even though I have done more miles since than it took for it to appear in the first place. I'd like to get some lubrication to the top end and diesel is an easy option so long as it won't cause damage (or carbon build up). MMO is available here at only one place I know of and it is ridiculously expensive so it is not a consideration.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by Greynomad View Post

                  While 10% Ethanol is available here, every service station sells mostly straight fuel. I've been adding a lead replacement fir a while now and I'm sure it is leaving a carbon deposit in the head which accumulates till I hear a tapping sound as the part of the piston above the top ring touches the carbon. What is the opinion out there on adding a little diesel fuel to a tank of petrol. My late father in law swore that dong that would ruin the engine. He was no slouch with a spanner so I'm reluctant to do it without checking first.
                  I don't think lead is needed in a Model A engine with it's low compression ratios. Am I correct on this? The biggest problems I've had with ethanol in gas has been the residue left from the deterioration of the inside of rubber parts, (hoses), attracting moisture, and evaporation. I will no longer use it in antique vehicles, boats or any engine that sits for long periods. I learned that the hard way.

                  Comment


                  • Terry, NJ
                    Terry, NJ commented
                    Editing a comment
                    The Mod A engine was designed and built before lead additives were put in the gas. That was in 1938 IIRC.
                    Terry

                • #11
                  Greynomad, another way you can get some top end lube is to just add a dash of 10 weight motor oil to the tank. MMO is just a thin lube oil, no real magic to it. I'd use the same % as we do for MMO (4 oz per 10 gals). This is not enough to make it smoke out the pipe. If you think about it, we add oil to the gas all the time on 2-cycle motors. Where are you located? Not the USA I presume?

                  Comment


                  • Terry, NJ
                    Terry, NJ commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Why not ATF? It works good at quieting the valves down. I don't know what ratio you would use.
                    Terry

                • #12
                  New member here and I see a lot of familiar names so I''m not alone. A thread should have something positive about the subject but I cannot add anything positive when it comes to ethanol. I have several antique tractors and stationary engines plus the two Model A's that I drive regularly. No fuel problems with what I have now. I really believe in straight gas, MMO, and Seafoam. The newer cars I have are made to use ethanol and have no fuel related problems. So, fuel problems are easily corrected after you get the fuel system cleaned out and follow a new regime.

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Originally posted by tbirdtbird View Post
                    Greynomad, another way you can get some top end lube is to just add a dash of 10 weight motor oil to the tank. MMO is just a thin lube oil, no real magic to it. I'd use the same % as we do for MMO (4 oz per 10 gals). This is not enough to make it smoke out the pipe. If you think about it, we add oil to the gas all the time on 2-cycle motors. Where are you located? Not the USA I presume?
                    I have used ATF also but as others said in the past, the MMO just smells good:D
                    3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
                    Henry Ford said,
                    "It's all nuts and bolts"
                    "Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."

                    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      Originally posted by tbirdtbird View Post
                      Greynomad, another way you can get some top end lube is to just add a dash of 10 weight motor oil to the tank. MMO is just a thin lube oil, no real magic to it. I'd use the same % as we do for MMO (4 oz per 10 gals). This is not enough to make it smoke out the pipe. If you think about it, we add oil to the gas all the time on 2-cycle motors. Where are you located? Not the USA I presume?
                      Back when I was young and foolish (I'm no longer young but still....), I used to ride a 2 stroke motor cycle. Using anything but proper 2 stroke oil resulted in carbon build up in he head just like the additive I was using. When I used engine oil in the fuel it took only a short time for the carbon to cause trouble.
                      4 oz of oil in 10 gallons doesn't mean much over here (Australia). We have been metric for about 50 years and never used the US system which is different from the imperial system used by other countries before they/we went metric. What is that as a ratio? The '28/9 Model A fuel tank holds about 8 imperial gallons - that's close to 36 litres but I have put 42 in. (EEK!)
                      Now, back to "Is distillate safe in a Model A engine?" Back in the day, especially during the depression and WWII, many people ran their cars on Kerosene or what ever they could get. That didn't cause a problem then but we can't do it now. They used what we knew as "Power Kerosene". There was also "Lighting Kerosene" meant for use in lamps etc. The Kero we buy these days is the latter type and is fatal in short time to an engine. The combustion process with lighting Kero creates fine, very hard and abrasive particles which act like grinding paste in the cylinders. Kero is a light lubricant, so is distillate so before I put any in my engine, I need to be sure I'm not going to have to rebuild it again because I did the wrong thing.
                      Last edited by Greynomad; 05-04-2017, 07:20 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        (creeps in the forum backdoor)

                        see ive never had fuel related problems in anything from weed whackers to vintage anythings... fuel pumps from modern cars are clean maybe slightly yellowed after 160K miles and 15 years old... we leave whatever fuel is in the lawnmowers over the winter and they start just fine in the spring. Im in humid and or cold IL and no issues...

                        now regular gas will leave a shellac/residue over time that builds up - ethanol does run cleaner and will remove this varnish slowly and will gum up stuff and clog all sorts of stuff.

                        Comment


                        • Big hammer
                          Big hammer commented
                          Editing a comment
                          My first post :-) The only thing I have noticed, the degraded performance when I used ethanol gasoline in my "A". It was enough for me worry, at the time I had a full load in the Tudor!

                      • #16
                        I've had issues with small motors and ethanol, but no big deal with A's. However, I get home delivery from the co-op and they say that they had 5% ethanol. For the past four months, I've been getting pure gas delivered for $2.49 a gallon. BTW, this site has great potential

                        Comment


                        • #17
                          Originally posted by BILL WILLIAMSON View Post
                          I, personally, have had NO (ZILCH-NADA) problems with Gasohol, except for LOWER gas mileage.
                          "Maybe" ours' is a different blend??? Fortunately ours' is a DRY climate, which lessens the accumulation of WATER in the tank.
                          Bill W. & Buster T.
                          Same here.

                          Comment


                          • #18
                            At the shop we deal with some donated auction cars which come in for repairs to get running and so forth. Many of these cars have sat of which we can tell by the old inspection stickers.
                            Many are for fuel pumps from the ethanol
                            Being in a shop environment you can witness this first hand, as many of these cars have sat for less than 1 year...Fords seem to be the worse
                            3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
                            Henry Ford said,
                            "It's all nuts and bolts"
                            "Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."

                            Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                            Comment


                            • #19
                              Ethanol is crap. It is only there to give big $$ to the giant Ag corporations nothing else. My brother-in-law bought a new Chevy truck about 7 or 8 years ago, and ran E-85 faithfully as he thought he was doing something 'good'. Aside from the pathetic fuel mileage when the truck got about 65,000 miles on it the motor crapped out. He took it to the garage and as soon as they tore into it, a mechanic called him and asked him 'You're not running Ethanol fuel are you?? E-85??" Ed told him the story and 'why'. The mechanic said 'we've had other vehicles in here with similar serious problems that have been running E-85...DO NOT RUN THAT SH+- IN YOUR VEHICLES.'

                              I run only straight gasoline luckily we have several stations that still sell it. People look for 'cheap' and that is what they buy. If Ethanol wasn't so heavily subsidized by the Fed, as it is, it would be a lot more expensive and no one would buy the stuff, it would dry up and blow away.

                              On a similar note, look at 'gasoline brands to avoid' it isn't all the same thing. Stay far away from Jet, Road Ranger, Speedway and that kind of cheap fuel..........

                              https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...h-extra-price/

                              Comment


                              • DaWizard
                                DaWizard commented
                                Editing a comment
                                I'd like to know what the problem(s) were on that E-85 break down.

                            • #20
                              Next time I see him I'll ask him, all I recall is the motor lost power and started knocking real bad..............

                              Comment


                              • #21
                                At the junk yard we had lots of cars come in during the 90's just because the ethanol trashed the fuel pump. When Chrysler dropped the Omni/ Horizon, a lot of them also hit the yards, and most were still pretty rust free and good looking.

                                Comment


                                • Mitch
                                  Mitch commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  Weren't the omni / horizons hitting the yards long before they were dropped? lol

                              • #22
                                I use marine sta-bil 360 in my A's
                                3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
                                Henry Ford said,
                                "It's all nuts and bolts"
                                "Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."

                                Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                                Comment


                                • #23
                                  As I've said before, I've had NO problems with GASOHOL, except for lower gas mileage.
                                  "Maybe" it's attributed to a RUMOR I heard?---"They" say that ALCOHOL destined for drinkin' is being put in our gas & the BAD stuff is being bottled for the DRUNKS.
                                  I "wonder" if the PRICE of Liver Transplants will go UP?----FACT: When you drink, the Alcohol is separated out & goes STRAIGHT to the LIVER!!! (SCARY! But Germ Free!)
                                  OH, thanks for the HORSE, Mitch, I think we need it, especially on MOTOR OIL THREADS & FAMs
                                  Dad Partsandpieces

                                  Comment


                                  • #24
                                    greynomad The ratio you requested is 1: 32

                                    Comment


                                    • Mitch
                                      Mitch commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      Welcome sphanna!

                                    • DaWizard
                                      DaWizard commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      sphanna, WELCOME to the VFF!!

                                  • #25
                                    I was pumping gas the other day and a corn curdle came out
                                    3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
                                    Henry Ford said,
                                    "It's all nuts and bolts"
                                    "Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."

                                    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                                    Comment


                                    • BILL WILLIAMSON
                                      BILL WILLIAMSON commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      Is that anything like Creamed Corn? LOVE thet stuff. I'm the Chief Cook here, I buy Aunt Pennys' White Sauce & I can CREAM anything! IF you need cookin' tips, message me, cuz all I ever get is JUNK MAIL!
                                      Gourmet Dad
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