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Pressure Oiling the A Block

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  • Pressure Oiling the A Block

    Al, we really need a fresh thread to get this going, so here it is. I am very interested in the way you did that, and it looks so simple.
    You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

  • #2
    I never liked the looks of a modern oil filter mounted on a Model A engine. So when I build my own touring engine, and decided to go full pressure oil, I remotely mounted the oil filter back under the car on the right side of the transmission. The oil is routed from the oil pump, out to the filter, then back into the engine and piped to the mains. I have 15 lbs of oil pressure at idle and a maximum of 35 lbs at 3000 rpms. Here are some photos of my setup:

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    Comment


    • DaWizard
      DaWizard commented
      Editing a comment
      Al, I just love the stainless Swagelok fittings, best made. Probably stupid question, but how did you block off the exit oil, and determine what size hole to oil the cam gear? I do love how you did that with what looks like 3/8 feed line to 1/4 for the mains. No cam knock?

    • Mitch
      Mitch commented
      Editing a comment
      I agree beautiful job. We already saw your water cooling feed to the rear of the engine. That motor must be bullet proof

    • BNCHIEF
      BNCHIEF commented
      Editing a comment
      Outstanding job Al.

  • #3
    Guys, thanks for the nice comments. It took me 6 months to put that engine together. It now has nearly 15,000 miles on it and the only problem I've had is two blown head gaskets. If you looked closely at the front of the valve chamber, those three Swaglok fittings are welded together because of the critical spacing required. "DaWizard" - at 35 PSI, enough oil sneaks past the top of the Stipe oil pump to lubricate the cam gear. I also left the dippers and tray in the oil pan to be sure enough oil got splashed up onto the cylinder walls. Also, the center main bearing has a 5/16" feed tube because it also feeds rod journals 2 and 3. The front and rear feed tubes are only 1/4" because they just feed one rod journal each.

    Comment


    • #4
      DaWizard: the brass looking fixture in the front of the valve chamber is a pressure relief valve set at 35 PSI. At the base of that pressure relief valve I have drilled a .050" hole directed to the back of the valve chamber. This supplies enough oil to the valve chamber to oil the lifters. There are also holes drilled in the lifter bosses. See attached photo:
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      • #5
        Ahh, ok, so you have a very small hole pointed at the timing gear too. How did you determine the size of that?

        Where are you taking the oil pressure reading from? It looks like off the oil filter, but is that the most accurate place?
        You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

        Comment


        • #6
          DaWizard: I have made a CD which has photos and a PDF file with explanations I could send you. Send me a private note with your home address and I'll mail you a copy. I gave a copy to George Miller in 2014 when I was down to NC for the MARC National Tour. James Rogers also has a copy of that CD I mailed him. Mr. Rogers said at the time he was looking to build a stealth engine, what ever that means.

          The oil hole size was determined by trial and error. Too large, no oil pressure at idle. The final size I determined to be .055" (drill #54). And yes, the oil pressure gauge is on the engine size of the oil filter, which gives a accurate reading for the manifold.
          Last edited by AL in NY; 01-26-2018, 09:25 PM.

          Comment


          • #7
            I would love to see that with a clear piece of plastic as a valve cover to see how that is working.
            You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

            Comment


            • #8
              DaWizard: I did that to look and see if I had enough oil sprayed around the valve chamber. I also cut up an oil return pipe and replaced the center section with clear plastic hose to see how much oil was actually getting into the valve chamber because I couldn't see much using the clear plastic valve cover, too much sprayed oil getting on it.

              Comment


              • #9
                Al there was once a video posted showing an engine running with a see through valve cover. Was that your demonstration?
                4~ Tudor's
                1~ Coupe

                Henry Ford said,
                "It's all nuts and bolts"


                Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                Comment


                • #10
                  Mitch, no - not me.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Oh, now you've done it. I can't wait to look through that CD. You have a PM, but I think there are others looking at this too and perhaps some are just as interested in doing something like this too.

                    Is there a particular reason you chose the Stipe oil pump, since the stock pump is capable of up to 85# of pressure?
                    You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

                    Comment


                    • dmdeaton
                      dmdeaton commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yes, I would like to get a copy of the CD also. I will send some $$ for your trouble and mail costs.

                  • #12
                    The stipe oil pump has a flange on the top so it can be bolted to the bottom of the engine. My first engine was "professionally built" for full pressure oil, but no oil filter(don't like the looks of the modern filter on the Model A). It over heated a seized up because the oil pressure pushed the oil pump down onto the spring and the pump lost contact with the driveshaft. Result, little to no oil pressure. Back then I didn't run an oil pressure gauge, lost over $7000.00 in parts and labor, the engine was junk!!!!

                    Also, if you look at the pictures I first posted, look closely at the second picture. You'll see a set screw threaded from the valve cover gasket surface to the oil pump/distributor drive gear. That's there to lock that gear in position so it can't be pushed up by oil pressure.
                    Last edited by AL in NY; 01-26-2018, 09:47 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Oh, didn't think that would be a problem, but now that you mention it, I can see how that could happen. Do you know how much pressure that first pump was putting out?

                      See, I had thought about holding the pump in with something in the side hole, but thinking about it, it wouldn't be that hard to take a stock pump and make a hole where the locator pin is, and you need to tap the hole in the block anyway. I am a machinist, and fund challenged. So, could the stock pump be used, or is the Stipe able to be regulated?
                      You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        I have no idea of the max pressure that the modified stock pump was putting out. There was a pressure relief valve in the system, but don't know what the engine builder had it set for. On the Stipe pump, there is a pressure relief valve built into it, but I don't know what it is set for. You may be able to get one special ordered with the max pressure you want. I didn't think of that before I ordered and modified mine. In my system, you don't have the regulate the oil pump pressure at the pump, the system pressure is regulated by the pressure relief valve in the valve chamber. And that can be ordered for whatever pressure you choose.
                        Last edited by AL in NY; 01-26-2018, 10:07 PM.

                        Comment


                        • DaWizard
                          DaWizard commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Oh yea, I know about pop valves, I build live steam engines.

                      • #15
                        Just a random thought, but is there enough room in the timing gear area to put the pressure relief valve, or do you think it better to have it in the valve valley?

                        And if I ask myself that question I see it was stupid because as long as you are popping off the excess oil into the valley it is keeping things moving. and actually since you have the main oiler holes plugged with tubing it is best to keep the oil flowing through the plumbing and not popping off anywhere.
                        You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

                        Comment


                        • #16
                          I have full pressure oiling in my A. Mine was done by Jay Steel of Taylor Engines before he passed away. It is not the prettiest thing on the side of the engine, but it works well and I have had no problems with it. I will take a picture of it tomorrow and post it. I don't have any pictures of the plumbing of it inside the engine.

                          Ken

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                          • #17
                            Thanks Ken, any and all pictures are welcome. The more ideas the better.
                            You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

                            Comment


                            • #18
                              Hi Al your engine oiling system looks real nice.

                              Comment


                              • #19
                                This is a picture of the oil filter setup for my full pressure oiling system done by Jay Steele at Taylor engine (see post #16)

                                Ken
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                                • #20
                                  In pressure feeding the main bearings in my motor, we followed the description in the Secrets of Speed article by Charlie Yapp and purchased a pressure reducing valve from him.
                                  The oil pump was also modified as per the article.
                                  I also fitted a remote oil filter mounted on the chassis adjacent to the timing gear cover, pretty much out of sight, but readily accessible.
                                  Without a clear valve cover it is assumed that the blow off from the pressure reducing valve keeps the valve chamber full of oil and that the overflow keeps the timing gears lubricated.
                                  So far, after 10,000 miles there have been no issues relating to this set-up

                                  Comment


                                  • DaWizard
                                    DaWizard commented
                                    Editing a comment
                                    Hey wensum, great info, need pictures and maybe a link to the article by Charlie Yapp.

                                • #21
                                  The "Secrets Vintage Speed & Sport Magazine" that the article appeared in was Volume Nineteen, Number 4 April 2010 and I believe that it's still possible to obtain copies? His contact at the time was [email protected]. The article is over a number of pages and if you are able to pm me, I could scan them and email them to you?
                                  Keith

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                                  • #22
                                    Here's that Secrets of Speed article from October 1999 by Charlie Yapp:


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                                    • DaWizard
                                      DaWizard commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      Thanks Al, very interesting information.

                                  • #23
                                    Al, as we spoke about the Nu-Rex centrifugal advance, here is a picture of it installed.

                                    Advance 3.jpgAdvance 4.jpg
                                    You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

                                    Comment


                                    • CM2
                                      CM2 commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      I've heard good and bad reviews of that advance unit...what say you?

                                  • #24
                                    Oh, that's easy, I LOVE it, but since the higher up in compression you go, the less advance you need, I am wondering what I can do to reduce the advance if I were to put say a 6:1 head on it. But when I get to that point I will be sure to give Nu-Rex a call and see if he has advice.
                                    You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

                                    Comment

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