Model A era gasoline

[Mitch]

Was the fuel during the Model A years Leaded?

[CM2]

The "ethyl" in early gasoline marketing referred to Tetra ethyl lead...the refining process was way different ,they used a cracking tower..you basically heated crude oil at the bottom of the tower and the lighter elements floated to the top..naptha,gasoline, kerosene,unrefined light oil,unrefined heavy oil and bunker oil was carried off by pipes placed on the cracking tower like a ladder.

[Chevmn56]

Dang CM2
Im impressed!!!

[CM2]

I wore nomex before,hot itchy flame retardant coveralls..gotta admit theres money in that stuff,real folding money to be made at those places..

[Tom Wesenberg]

Look for old magazine ads. I was looking in a 1929 magazine and saw an ad for Ethyl gasoline.
I don't know when it first came out, but I'd guess about this time.

[Mickey]

My dad worked at a gas station in the '30s when gas pumps had the big glass bowls at the top. He told me the station owner would pour red dye in one undergound tank of regular and none in a second tank. The red dye tank would be the ethyl. He said a lot of drivers swore how much better their cars run on the ethyl than on the regular.

[Big hammer]

Maybe the red dye was MMO !
And many cars run better with MMO :-)

[CM2]

Basic cracking tower..same principal applies today with all kinds of controls and crap added to make the moose piss you buy today..early gasoline was a beautiful golden color and had a unique smell..

[tbirdtbird]

ah, the good stuff, BE (before ethanol)

[Mitch]

I never heard Tom call it Moose Piss LOL

[BNCHIEF]

The company I worked for just spent 1 billion dollars on the refinery meeting all the latest standards plus a new cracker in order to meet low sulphur diesel and other new epa mandates.

[tbirdtbird]

That red dye might have actually helped. In the biography of Charles Kettering, the great automotive inventor (very interesting reading BTW) who invented amongst other things the points ignition, freon, and lead as an antiknock additive, it is mentioned that his first success with reducing engine knock was by using red aniline dye

[Mitch]

So a lead additive was added to the fuel during the Model A era. If your running a stock setup without stainless valves and hardened seats, how come we don't add a lead substitute for protection?

[CM2]

Because thats fear mongering bullshit,Ive never saw a valve fail from lack of lead.its just like buying high dollar designer oil with ZDDP to protect your flat tappets..

[tbirdtbird]

my understanding was that Ethyl was hi-test gas and a Model A being low compression (VERY low compression) did not require it. BUT even the regular grades back then were REAL gas which had a lot of lubricity to it

[Captndan]

Yeah why?

[1931 Flamingo]

I remember in the 50's getting "white" (unleaded) gas for the lawn mower.................
Paul in CT

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Leaded gas will foul the plugs, on my Chainsaw! Like a BLACK "connector" across the GAP!

[Mitch]

Because thats fear mongering bullshit,Ive never saw a valve fail from lack of lead.its just like buying high dollar designer oil with ZDDP to protect your flat tappets..

Well not according to this Articles first paragraph. Yes the same Author

http://www.volcanoas.net/uploads/3/4/4/7/34474830/gasoline_water_oil.pdf

It seems pretty evident that this author is one of those people who likes to tinker and change everything, and all his changes are 'necessary improvements', and you should get onboard too!

[CM2]

In tearing down the engine I got with the burn car the babbit,pistons and cam were newer,maybe a few thousand miles total on it..what was surprising was the tar like build up on the intake valve stems..Im suspecting overzealous use of MMO or some other snake oil dumped in the tank by the idiot that owned it between me and the cat who built it.As far as ZDDP goes I know alot of Vw fools who run high dollar Brad Penn crap,like the oil is magic elixir.. so not only are they stupid,they are broke.

[Mitch]

Yep that will certainly do it. A little dab will do ya not half the bottle

[Jeff/Illinois]

I read once that Tetra Ethyl lead for gasoline was invented by General Motors' chemists in 1924 in the AC Delco labs They wanted to push the compression ratios up in their engines over time. It was very poisonous and several died while perfecting the formula by being around the stuff. So, leaded gasoline WAS available during the Model A years. Standard sold 'white gas' unleaded all during that time.

As much as Henry Ford hated anything non-Ford and wanted nothing to do with other's inventions, or support the competition, I can't see where he would have built a car that needed a product that was putting $$ in GM's coffers!! Legend has it the reason Ford was the last to go to hydraulic brakes was, he couldn't stand the idea of spending money buying Bendix, Corp. parts and they had the patents on hyd. brake systems.

[tbirdtbird]

"Tetra Ethyl lead for gasoline was invented by General Motors' chemists "
Jeff that is quite true, that chemists/inventors name was Charlie Kettering, prolific inventor for GM until the late '50s. he founded Delco

[Jeff/Illinois]

tbirdtbird Charles Kettering must have been quite the guy. Didn't he also invent the electric self-starter?? Cadillac had it first I believe?

[tbirdtbird]

True again on both counts. Invented points ignition in 1910 and "self-starter" in 1911, yes, Caddy first.
He had a conversation with Henry about the self-starter at some point, and Henry declared he would never need such a device. LOL Kettering smiled and replied, "You, sir, will have no say in that matter"

My Model A and T mentor who was born 1911 used to tell about how his mom could not operate the crank on a Model T. She had him crank it up at the house, and then when she wanted to return home from shopping in town, she would pay a street kid a nickel to crank it for her

Kettering was nothing short of brilliant

[BNCHIEF]

Tbird you can get a model t to start without cranking it or using the starter.

[carolinamudwalker]

My father in law said that he would start his truck on gasoline then switch over to kerosene because gas was rationed during the war. Maybe we just need to replace MMO with kerosene?

[Ed H]

My father in law said that he would start his truck on gasoline then switch over to kerosene because gas was rationed during the war. Maybe we just need to replace MMO with kerosene?

I just got a old JD tractor going that would run on both. Kind of neat, burned kero did stink tho, nothing like a diesel.

[Mike V. Florida]

Was the fuel during the Model A years Leaded?

Not all of it. As we have seen its origins as a gasoline additive began in the 1920s, when it was perfected by GM as an anti-knock compound for high-compression engines. Do we have high compression engines? If not we don't need it. But as I always say, if it makes you happy to add it and gets you to drive your car more then add it.

[Mitch]

No I'm good

[BNCHIEF]

Paul mentioned white gas, which to me is natural gas liquid also called drip gas in the oil patch people ran it in their model t's during the war and probably model a's as well altho it would leave a lot of carbon.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Paul mentioned white gas, which to me is natural gas liquid also called drip gas in the oil patch people ran it in their model t's during the war and probably model a's as well altho it would leave a lot of carbon.

My uncle always ran white gas in his lawn mower, and I thought if it as gas without lead. Wasn't it also used in Coleman lanterns?

[Dennis]

Yup! Dad always went down to the gas station and I got to ride along before our camping trips to get some white gas for our Coleman lantern.

[BNCHIEF]

You are correct Tom if forgot about that. and it is unleaded.

[aford193031]

Back when I was in college and working in a Gulf station, we had a hidden pump that we sold marine white gas. We got it from the Mobil distributor. We had customers that wanted it for their outboard motors.

[SoCal_alden]

Dad would send me down to the gas station with a gallon glass jug. Filled it up for 10 cents. We used it for parts cleaning and our camping gear - Coleman stoves & lanterns.

[Mitch]

Model “A” Ford Refilled with STOPNOX at 17 Cents a Gallon

Today’s image of a 1930 Model “A” Ford coupe equipped with a winter front was taken in Hartford, Connecticut in 1931 while it was being refilled with STOPNOX gasoline costing 17 cents per gallon. The station had at least five double fuel pump units, and six motor oil tanks and pumps are visible in the photo including one on the far-left for dispensing “Amalie,” a motor oil made from Pennsylvania crude that is still in the market today.

Spark knock, pinging, and detonation have long been the bane of motorists and all describe a noise caused by erratic combustion of the air and fuel mix in an engine. STOPNOX and other brands of gasoline containing tetraethyllead were first introduced in the 1920s after the fuel additive that increases the octane rating was first used in racing cars. It allows for higher compression ratios to be used and in most cases eliminates spark knock. A number of other gasoline blends sold during the period contained the word nox or ethyl in the fuels brand name.

[WMWS]

In the 50's I used AMOCO gas in my 2 stroke motorcycles because it was white gas with no lead to foul the spark plug.

[SeaSlugs]

In the pic and desc above it says it has a winter front... What exactly does that mean? I see the thing over the radiator is present but what is that thing?

[Mitch]

They are louvers to shut off the air flow

[SeaSlugs]

ooooh makes sense. Fancier version of modern diesels with the heavy canvas flap they can open or close covering the grille. I used to jam a piece of cardboard over my grille on my old modern truck in the winter - really heats up alot quicker. My new silverado has active aero shutters behind the grille so it shuts them 100% closed when its warming up then opens them a proper amount as outside air needs. Interstate speed they are mostly all shut as its more efficent to slowly run the electric fan 9stepper motor so any speed not just high low like it used to be) than the aero drag.

[EdW]

In August1924 GM partnered with Standard Oil of New Jersey to form the Ethyl Gasoline Corporation to produce and sell Ethyl fluid to be added to gasoline. In May 1925 it was pulled from the market for a year due to safety concerns.