Clean engine with PCV?

[Corley]

Just wondering if anyone out there has experimented with using a PCV valve in an effort to keep the engine area cleaner by controlling fumes. A PCV valve is more than a hole that shakes and rattles. It provides an orifice set which is matched to the engine, plus a spring which matches the orifice 'leak' to the varying vacuum. Difficult to explain, but it's more than a simple vacuum leak into the crankcase. It would take just the right valve to perfectly match the engine, but there are tons to select from.

[DaWizard]

Hey Corley, WELCOME to the VFF!!

I have thought about it but never tried it because I never had the specs for each valve to be able to set the vacuum activation level.

With my advancing age I have become more cynical and figure that since my car just sucks gas in and spews out carbon monoxide, I just offset the goody two-shoes that are driving around in the electric vehicles.

There is just something about being a gross polluter that tickles my fancy.

[Mitch]

Well i'll make sure i never follow you. Even with my good charcoal cabin filter you'll stink me out.. LOL

[Mitch]

Welcome Corley

Good thoughts on relieving some of the crankcase pressures, even with good rings they tend to spit out the cap after a long haul. This can also help reduce leaks in general. I can see tapping a hole into the manifold above the wiper port for a source. Where do you think a good spot would be to place the valve?

[Bill in NJ]

A used one just sold on ebay today for $ 12.50

[Corley]

A used one just sold on ebay today for $ 12.50

And a Toyota Corolla one is listed at Rockauto for $0.62. But who knows if it would have the correct characteristics for the A.

[Mitch]

Bill must be talking about something other than pcv's

[plyfor]

Attached is one we installed in a tudor back in the early 1970's; pulled it after it appeared to not be too effective and to draw oil mist into the pcv valve and into the intake manifold. One end went into the vacuum wiper line port and the other in a valve cover bolt hole drilled thru, etc.intended to relieve valve train chamber pressure.The PCV valve is in the red hose. We now use a '32 4 cylinder larger oil filler pipe with no copper or other mesh at the cap to restrict air flow.

[Gil]

There is a man near Sedona AZ that runs a small shop working on Model A's.
Bob has been developing a device to do just this.
i believe he has about 20 of these units installed and on the road.
i know at least 2 cars that were on the MAFCA National Tour this past Fall
ran with these installed.... with very good results.
5 minutes to install and very reasonable.
i can get you in touch with him if you are interested.
Gil. NoCal

[DaWizard]

Hey Gil, WELCOME to the VFF!!

[BNCHIEF]

Gil welcome and please post anything you have we are all about discussion and learning pics would be really nice welcome to the vff.

[Bill in NJ]

I should have said it included the valve cover which was set up for the PCV and the filter was tapped to accept a fitting to install the line

[Mitch]

Attached is one we installed in a tudor back in the early 1970's; pulled it after it appeared to not be too effective and to draw oil mist into the pcv valve and into the intake manifold. One end went into the vacuum wiper line port and the other in a valve cover bolt hole drilled thru, etc.intended to relieve valve train chamber pressure.The PCV valve is in the red hose. We now use a '32 4 cylinder larger oil filler pipe with no copper or other mesh at the cap to restrict air flow.

Some issues and questions about your setup.
There was a video years back showing just how much oil was being splashed around inside the valve chamber. This was documented by installing a clear plexiglass cover in place of the metal valve cover. I was very surprised by the amount of splash that occurred inside the galley. So with that being said, i can see how oil can get sucked right up into the valve if it is just threaded through the cover. Many more modern pcv systems have the valve located at a high point on the motor, such as the valve covers or intake manifold. Along with this location most systems have a baffle built in so direct oil splash does not get sucked up. For instance a valve cover would have a metal cage on the inside to prevent this from happening. The source of the vacuum IMO would have to be larger than the standard vacuum wiper port. More like 3/8th would allow for more vacuum to assist in the positive flow of the crankcase. If that is heater hose shown on your setup the oil will swell that in no time and turn it to jelly. This is why i asked in my first question on this thread where would be a good place to put this? Installing on the v/cover would be good but a redesign would be necessary. I too would like to see a picture of Bob's device that he has installed.

Gil thanks for the info and contribution, I Welcome you to the VFF as well

[Corley]

It seems to me that to work properly, you need cross flow of crankcase fumes, so the valve cover is the logical place to tap into. However, that area is almost flooded with oil mist all the time, so you would have to create a baffle setup, to separate the fumes from the oil. Perhaps something up high on the firewall, with a hose leading to it such that fumes can be drawn off with the PCV va!ve, and oil could drain back to the crankcase. Perhaps the wiper port on the intake could be enlarged, for more air flow.

Just a mind fart from an old man.

[George Miller]

On my truck I did it a little different. I did not use a valve. I made my own oil filter mount on a old side cover. Put hose connection about in the middle of the cover. Ran that to my air cleaner.Drown" draft carb". Then installed draft tube that has the oil filler tube with it. They were 40ts and early 50ts chev 6.
That way you are not putting oil in to the intake. The tube draws the blow by under the car. It helps with the rear main leaks.

[George Miller]

I was thinking how about putting the valve in the oil filler cap. Would that help or would it just take the fumes that are coming out.Would it reduce the pressure in the crankcase. The good thing would be you could remove it and the engine would be stock again. What do you think.

[Mitch]

I think with the venting of the cap itself that it would be ineffective. The best way is a crossflow as was stated earlier. Breather on one side and the pcv on the other. A pcv needs a place to draw fresh air in like on a breather filter in a more modern type application.... cross flow

[George Miller]

I think you are probably right. I was just thinking it is going to be hard to get to work with out picking up oil from the side cover unless you have a down draft carb. How about a air cleaner up high on the cover side. that would let the air in then the oil would not be a problem. The problem is it would not look so good. Jump in with your ideas the more ideas the better. This is not about trying to be right, just to get ideas which lead to more ideas.

[Gil]

First off I am upfront in telling you I am not a mechanic.... so pardon me if I don't know
all the correct terms here...
Bob starts with the oil filler tube cap.... replaces it with one that has a hole in it...
into that cap he fits a "plastic" donut if you will.... and now inserts a rubber tube.
the tube runs across the front of the engine....has a clamp on the tube to hold it
in place... I believe the clamp on the front cover.... then the tube goes to the vacuum
port for the windshield wiper line.
sounds simple.... and is simple.
No loss of power. There are a couple of little things that have been learned thru
trial and error that make a significant difference.
The only reason Bob works on this is to help others in this great hobby.
In no way is he doing this for money.
I would be happy to share his contact number to those interested.
PM me.
Gil. NoCal

[Mitch]

I'm interested can u email it to me. [email protected]

I would think that with the oil cap not being sealed on the fill tube it would be ineffective that way... As well with no cross flow

Thanks for sharing his number

[George Miller]

I got another idea. How about a pice of pipe 1 1/2 inch in dia or what ever will fit. have it hanging from the top of the valve cover on the inside down about a inch 1 1/2.now put a fine screen in the bottom with a fitting at the top for the hose tp fit to.

[Mitch]

George i smell the wood burning all the way up here.aaahh I'm having a hard time mentally seeing what your suggesting.

Gil sent me Bob's number so i'll reach out to him when i can.

[George Miller]

I know I'm not the best at explaining. Basically like a tomato can with the end cut out, and a screen put in the place of the lid. then put it up side down in the valve chamber. mount it at the top. I could be mounted to valve cover. You would have to run a hose to it and put that at the top. That way it should not suck oil in the hose. But you have to mess up a cover to do it. I know you would not want to do it to you cars.

The oil cap thing might work better if the pipe went through the cap and down the tube to almost the bottom of the tube.

[plyfor]

If I understand correctly, George is on to something in post 15. Attached is how Chrysler did it on their flathead six with a pipe (see #75 on the diagram) on the block rt. side. The pipe is supposed to have a coarse mesh filter at the top where the pipe bolts to the block and is a straight shot down . The filler pipe on the other left side had 2 optional caps, one plain and one for heavy duty (dirty conditions) with louver sides and course copper mesh inside and supposedly helped cross ventilate the engine. The cars also had side engine pans like the model A and helped push fumes under the car.

[Mitch]

Basically like a tomato can with the end cut out, and a screen put in the place of the lid. then put it up side down in the valve chamber. mount it at the top. I could be mounted to valve cover. You would have to run a hose to it and put that at the top. That way it should not suck oil in the hose.

Gottcha now George.

That idea could work good thinking

[Mitch]

The early Ford V-8 5.0 FI cars had the PCV in the back of the intake manifold. To prevent it from sucking oil there was a small metal mesh filter inserted in the hole first. Making a metal cage on the back side of the valve cover to hold the filter in place could work. This filter is only about an 1 inch big. Pictured is the filter and the pcv grommet that was used on these Fords

[George Miller]

That should work well. What pcv valve would you use? don't they have to be sized for each size engine.

[Mitch]

Which valve is yet to be determined.
I would open the wiper vacuum port in the manifold to 3/8th. Then install a tee for the wiper feed off of that. In that tee I would use a one way check valve to help keep vacuum to the wiper. A vacuum reservoir can also be used in combination with that.

[plyfor]

See my post 6; the T fitting for the wiper fit the manifold and the pcv valve was inline right after the fitting in the hose (which came with the kit as you see it). The PCV valve was an inline type used on top of some ov. hd valve covers of the time.

[plyfor]

Attached is a photo of the Flathead 6 crankcase vent pipe which is located directly behind the valve covers and one-bolted to the block with gasket, in a similar way to the Model A side oil return pipes. Slight oil drip can be seen at the bottom of the pipe.

[George Miller]

Does it seem to work good, and does it help the rear main from leaking. It might be another option. One nice thing it would show that much.

[George Miller]

I looked up PCV valves at NAPA online came up with 751 that includes the grommets.

[Mitch]

Here is everything we need
An adjustable PCV and a inline drainable oil separator.

http://www.powerperformancenews.com/tech-articles/an-adjustable-pcv-valve-for-the-street/

[George Miller]

That would work. Are you going to be the first kid on the block with one.

[Mitch]

HELL no

[CarlG]

And for $300, you, too, can have one (+ installation & shipping)

[Mitch]

We can do it without the separator to save $$

[George Miller]

Mitch you go first.

[Mitch]

Let's test it out on Beauford's car

[BNCHIEF]

Tell Beauford it bolts right on, anybody can do it. heck he could do a seminar at Brent's.

[George Miller]

there you go I will help watch him.

[DaWizard]

[Dennis]

I figured you would have at least tried it by now...

[BNCHIEF]

Way to stir the pot Dennis!

[DaWizard]

Dennis, I drive a pre-computer, pre-war, serious gross polluter, why would I want to recycle the blow-by?

[Mitch]

Okay group I have a nice update for this thread. Gil put me in contact with Bob Burres from AZ. He has done a lot of experimenting with adding a PCV system onto a Model A. He developed this for the worn out leaky motor with or without blowby and not necessarily for a good tight unit. His version of this PCV system consists of a rubber cone that gets pressed into the oil fill tube. This cone takes the place of the original cap. He drills a 3/4" hole in the middle of this cone for the PCV valve to fit into. From this he runs a 3/8th hose into the wiper vacuum port using reducing adapters. The wiper system is still intact after his installation. So he his going from 3/8th down to and 1/8th into the manifold. I did question this and his reply was to keep everything unaltered on the car. His testing and development was very extensive and when installed on a oil leaker it stopped or considerably slowed the leak down. The Model A Times also tested and reviewed it with positive results. He also wanted to build a package that was inexpensive, so the total cost of this is 27.00 in parts. He claims by creating this vacuum without having another breather or fresh air intake like on a conventional system, it is pulling the air from where the leaks are. This in turn slows down or stops them completely. He is actually selling these kits to the hobby. Mr. Burres gave me permission to post this and the particulars exclusively for the VFF. Attached is his instruction sheets that he mailed to me and some part numbers etc..

PCV Valve # FV184
#8 Rubber Plug from Ace Hardware


Mr Buress does not own a computer and has no desire to.
Again my thanks to Gil and Bob

Scan0010.jpgScan0011.jpg

[Gil]

Thank you Mitch. If a Model A is making too much blow by in your
engine bay.... or you are tired of the puddle under your car this
is a very inexpensive method to reduce these common problems.
Gil. NoCal