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  • #46
    Well guys, I boiled the Banjo for about two hours in a vinegar, water, and CRL solution using the propane grill. Not what I was expecting! No violence to the boil! The vinegar/CRL solution just sat there and turned a light shade of green. This wasn't what I had in mind. And there's still plenty of small sparkles on the inside of the part. Remember, the bearings came out as a sparkly, metallic paste that the inside is now thoroughly coated with. Oh well, at least it's degreased! Can someone , who knows more about chemistry than me, recommend some other solution/ chemical that would boil with more violence. I need the turbulence for a more thorough clean out. Oven Cleaner? Or something on the other side of the acidity scale? The acids did almost nothing.
    Terry

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    • #47
      Yes, try some of that oven cleaner from the Dollar Tree store, like what I used to strip paint and rust from the Model A engine last summer.
      Also, this morning I was watching a program about oil and grease, and they bragged about Dawn to remove the oil from ducks and other birds.
      If you stick a magnet on a flex cable and run it in and out the tube, does it drag out any junk?

      Comment


      • #48
        Terry I clean my axle tubes on the inside with a brush and gasoline. I know Tom mentioned doing it that way also. Here's the brush I use that I made with a rod and some wire holding it together.

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        • #49
          I did like Dennis when I cleaned my AA housings. I got a toilet brush at the 99 cent store and wired it to a dowel.

          Bob

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          • #50
            Today I cleaned the banjo to where I couldn't see any sparkles deep in the bottom of the casing. I went to the dollar store and bought some stuff, a brush and a "Turkey pan" to wash it off in, I got it cleaned, filed off the bumps from the gasket surfaces. Finally, I heated it on the grill (Just hot enough that I could still handle it) and chilled the double pinion race, Lubed the bore, and it slipped right in with no "Encouragement" Now I'm going to attack the axle housings. Am I doing this stuff in a correct order? This is the first time I've done this job and I don't want to get too far ahead of myself on any one thing. BTW, is it 20 inch LBS on the pinion too.?
            Terry

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            • Terry, NJ
              Terry, NJ commented
              Editing a comment
              Today, I repeated the injury of a week ago, too. I was working on my work bench and I did it again. This time with a cold chisel! Same foot, same injury! Gawd that hurt!

          • #51
            I go close to 20 inch lbs. on both the carrier bearings and pinion bearings. Put some oil on them first and when you check them turn them about 10 turns so they can settle in and then get your reading while in a steady turning motion.

            Comment


            • Terry, NJ
              Terry, NJ commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks Dennis, Is this wrong? I put a 1/2 in bolt through the pinion with a 3/4 nut to turn it with. So far OK. Then I started turning it and it was only 10-12 lbs. I tighten the pinion nut again and it got a little tighter (By hand) but not by wrench. It still reads 10-12 lbs. But the bearing feels over tightened. My in. lb torque wrench is a beam type, 3/8 drive. It seems as though I could over tighten the bearing and still wouldn't read 20 in. lbs. Also, It occurs to me that maybe I should have gotten some readings from the carrier before I did the pinion. Did I get ahead of myself on this?
              Terry

            • Dennis
              Dennis commented
              Editing a comment
              Find a dial indicator torque wrench if possible. I usually do the carrier first and then remove it and do the pinion. Use your driveshaft in the pinion and a 1-1/16" hex socket on the end of the driveshaft. Leave the torque tube off. When you reinstall the driveshaft always use a new nut, torque it to 100 ft lbs. Bend the cotter pin towards the pinion gear, not over the end of the shaft. You can always take the pinion out and do the carrier, but get a torque wrench with a dial.

            • Terry, NJ
              Terry, NJ commented
              Editing a comment
              Dennis, Isn't torque, torque? Let me ask you this, What is the difference whether or not I use a clicker, dial, or a beam? I don't see it. Also, I put a 1/2 bolt through the pinion gear with a 3/4 nut and I turn the nut, does the shaft have to be on it. Again, I don't see the difference.

            • Dennis
              Dennis commented
              Editing a comment
              Terry as far as the driveshaft goes in the pinion or not, what I have read is to have it in there. Personally I don't see how it could make a difference with or without. Recently I did one but with a Mitchell overdrive shaft in it. The Mitchell would be impossible to turn with a socket due to the multiple splines on the shaft. I made both a bracket with a bolt like you described to turn the pinion without a driveshaft and a adapter that clamps on the end of a Mitchell shaft. With a dial torque wrench as you are turning it you can see the increase and decrease and take an average. Personally I think for the procedure they are more accurate. Take for example your torque wrench didn't show a difference when it felt tighter by hand, so that should tell you how accurate your beam is. I also have a fixture/tool to check gear backlash. Let's face it, most people don't think it's necessary to check these dimensions etc. with tools when they can make a judgement call by feel. I'll do both, but I like to see what an instrument tells me also. Just a personal preference.

          • #52
            Looser is better than tighter.. To tight and you’ll burn out the bearings in a few miles. Get the end play out and just a hair more
            I do gears by feel
            20 inch lbs is barely anything
            2 1930 Tudors

            Henry Ford said
            "It's all nuts and bolts"


            Mitch's Auto Service ctr

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            • #53
              Tom Endy's article says to go to about 8 in lb and when you lock the nuts it should be close to 20 in lb.
              I would get a 1/4" drive torque wrench.

              Bob

              Comment


              • tbirdtbird
                tbirdtbird commented
                Editing a comment
                I would also avoid a beam type wrench

                never saw an inch-pound torque wrench in 3/8 drive. You sure your wrench is reading inch pounds and NOT ft lbs

              • Mitch
                Mitch commented
                Editing a comment
                I’ll post a picture of my 3/8th inch lb clicker tomorrow

              • tbirdtbird
                tbirdtbird commented
                Editing a comment
                that's fine but he doesn't want a clicker either

              • Dennis
                Dennis commented
                Editing a comment
                My inch lb Snap-on with a dial is a 3/8 drive.

            • #54
              I also think you better check your double race if it slid in cold without "encouragement". Mine was not pressed in and I could remove it also without a press. I ended up getting another banjo.

              Comment


              • #55
                If you think the double bearing feels too tight, then it likely is too tight.
                Like Mitch, I set them by feel, and I clean the housings with the round toilet brush like Bob C posted.

                Comment


                • Mitch
                  Mitch commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Remove the endplay and a hair more done...

                • Terry, NJ
                  Terry, NJ commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Like the way I snug wheel bearings! Put them on, tighten with a wrench and back off, then finger tight. It seems to work well! I have never thought much of this "Preloading" but one never knows! It seems to be a recipe for trouble if you don't get the preloading just right. I'll try it your way, Mitch.

                • Dennis
                  Dennis commented
                  Editing a comment
                  That's right you have to get it just right or it's not going to work. Preload max 20 inch lbs. I should have told you that earlier.

                • DaWizard
                  DaWizard commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Let me understand this... You set the double bearings to have a resistance, place an inch pound torque wrench on the tip of the drive shaft and try to get 20 in pounds of resistance?

                • Terry, NJ
                  Terry, NJ commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Well Wizard, That's my understanding of it. Same thing with the carrier, 20 inch Lbs. That seems too tight to me, plus I haven't gotten the torque to change despite increasing the tension on the nut. Somehow it just doesn't seem right! That's the pinion! The same thing goes for the carrier, 20 inch lbs.
                  Terry

                • Dennis
                  Dennis commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Wiz, that's correct. But less than 20 in. lbs. Read Tom Endy's article and you will see how he does it. Read all of his 3 articles and you will notice he does not leave the preload on each project he demonstrated to the same value. I do it in a similar fashion, but I have different fixtures and tools. Plus I'm mobile, I can throw everything in the trunk of my car and go to your shop and put a rear axle together.

              • #56
                Hi Guys! Today I put the bearing on the other side (Left, gear side) of the carrier. I Loctited it on, but it was still a press. That SOB will never move. Other work is taking me away, namely we sold our old Jetta to my grandson and I have to show him how to do some small jobs. I've been cleaning out the axle housings, getting a ton of crap out of them. As soon as I get them clean, I will proceed with the assembly of the banjo and axle housings. Sorry to bore you with every little detail ("Hell! It's only a damn rear, not the space shuttle") But at 73, I don't want to be taking this rear out again, so it's got to be right the first time. Next question, I have 4 banjo gaskets. What configuration do you start with, one thick and one thin? This is on the right side. (Passenger) side axle.
                Thanks for putting up with me! Terry

                Comment


                • #57
                  The Tom Endy articles tell you exactly what to do with the gaskets and the pre-loads. It sounds like you are doing this rebuild without the benefit of his extensive expertise. Truly a brave move on your part, good luck

                  Comment


                  • #58
                    A 20 inch pound rolling torque on a tapered roller bearing is whats known as setting the bearing at 'zero'...no endplay and no preload...its as Mitch says,a 'feel' call.Visually its the exact point where
                    the rollers rotate when you turn the bearing. As the differential warms up the bearing clearances close,raising the preload,why its imperative that you always err to the loose side,never accept tighter than spec.

                    Comment


                    • #59
                      Terry, I keep the thick gaskets on the outside of the stack. Did you order the deluxe kit with the blue green and white gaskets. That is the kit I always use. I'd have to measure them again but you get a better range of thicknesses. If I remember they were .010, .008, .005, and .003. I remember starting with the passenger side blue green and white which would have been .023". Tom Endy uses Indian Head gasket cement on his last step when he has gasket adjustments made. I use the spray on High Tack made by permatex. It doesn't harden and works good for oil and gas resistant.

                      In the past I posted some pictures of my differential tools I made. I'll look for those and link them. A few havew been added since then.

                      I took a road test tonight for the most recent differential rebuild and axle assembly. Took the temp gun along and with the Mitchell in overdrive driving 60+ mph never got above 115 degrees. The rebuilt transmission ran hotter than that by about 20 degrees.
                      Last edited by Dennis; 02-15-2018, 03:37 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #60
                        The temp gun is a good idea to make sure the rear end isn't getting too hot.
                        I drove my unrestored 1928 Phaeton 17 miles with the air temp at 85*, and the rear end was only 5 or 10 degrees warmer than the air.

                        Comment


                        • Mitch
                          Mitch commented
                          Editing a comment
                          It does not take much to take smoke the bearings. If the rear is getting to hot by the time one makes a decision of what to do, they are probably already fubared.
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