Modern Points ,condenser

[plyfor]

Sorry to belabor this subject but for a 12 volt modern upper plate dizzy, Rockauto sells 2 types for 65 V8 Mustang, each as follows:
FD77T (Tseries) condenser @$2.53, the FD77 @ $4.89. The points are FD8183VT @$3.03 and FD8183V @ $10.02.
Are these a correct application and what would be the difference aside from price? We found in a box of parts a condenser from a known A vendor in a Standard T series box with the part # obscured and no way to cross reference and check quality, etc.
We like moving the condenser away from the head and keeping it as close to the points as possible.

[Mitch]

The T series are the lower quality part.

[Mitch]

Standard has a T series parts line

[Mike V. Florida]

Keep in mind that the points and condenser end up having the same 6 volts on them no matter the battery voltage. The 6-volt coil does not have a resistor the 12-volt one does to drop the voltage.

[plyfor]

Ok, so then the Mustang non -T series numbers are an OK fitment? If so,we could cross reference them to check the vendors' offerings and get higher quality options.

[Mitch]

Fitment is the same

[Kevin in NJ]

I know you do not want to hear it, but you are much better off with original plates. The original plates were ground on the center so the plate could not move and change the gap. The 'improved' new upper plate is stamped and is not as tight on the center bearing which locates the plate. Also the stamped design will wear quick till it is even across so you will get more play at first. (see my pictures on ******** where I was bitching about a crappy article in The Restorer)

The modern points are no better than original and harder to set. They are not always properly inline so you have to bend them to be right (hey I have run mustangs for years). Quite frankly a quality used set of original style points will likely outlast your grandchildren.

As for the condenser, Go read about the Mustang guys have troubles with the new stuff failing. There is a big problem with budget condenser manufacturing. You are still smarter to get the original style A&L and use that cause you are likely to get decades of use from one, at least that has been our experience.

[Mitch]

Regarding your question on the quality difference, here are a some pics of the Standard brand T series & Standard Premium blue streak lines. The BS line has a sponge to keep the cam lobes lubed and the condenser wire is blue. The points contact quality on the BS usually have a hole to prevent pitting and the material make up looks beefier. Without personally knowing the specs and materials used to make each line, they are supposed to be premium over the T's.
These are available at most any professional auto parts jobber. I agree with Kevin about using the original style set up..
I have no first hand knowledge on this last statement but i believe when the suppliers mention "premium short proof condenser" in their catalogues that it is the A&L part.

[Kevin in NJ]

I have no first hand knowledge on this last statement but i believe when the suppliers mention "premium short proof condenser" in their catalogues that it is the A&L part.

I believe that the suppliers are selling the A&L unit also, but I do not know so I do not say so. It is usually easier to do an order from one place, so just ask who makes the part they sell. They have always told me when I call and ask.

[CarlG]

"They have always told me when I call and ask."

I really wish the vendors would print this information in their catalogs.

[plyfor]

Thanks Mitch; the photos help. The box we found had the vendor's tag purposely placed over the original box markings with the model no. felt penned out. When one " inherits" parts with a car purchase, the new owner needs to do some due diligence before throwing parts on the car when originals aren't available..We have an old A & L parts listing but no new one currently available and not sure who sells A&L since Al Lepore passed on.

[DaWizard]

A&L are accepting phone calls. The phone number hasn't changed!

[Jeff/Illinois]

I have to go with Kevin on this subject. I was running modern style points and condensor, Ford parts you can still pick them up at the Ford dealership most still stock them. Anyway I got tired of trying to set the point gap, so I took all that off and set it on the parts shelf in my garage and went back to the original SP upper plate with original type points and an A&L condensor and have never been happier. It has worked fine for 90 years, still works fine for me!!

[Tom Wesenberg]

Can't beat the original distributor for reliability. Remember, the top plate is a moving part, and all moving parts need lubrication. I make sure it's well lubed with Mystik JT-6 High Temp red grease. Most distributor restorations will need a set of bushings, upper and lower shafts with the coupling sleeve, a new condenser, and a new lower fine strand wire. I like to balance my rotors to take the side load off the bushings, other than the points pressure. A drop of oil on the points pivot and a dab of cam lube on the rubbing block is also needed.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Tom I've read where the reproduction upper plates are not made to original Ford spec (as Gomer Pyle would say Sur-PRISE sur -PRISE sur-PRISE ) and are a sloppy fit in the machined out groove in the distributor body that the plate rides in and your timing will be off as you advance and retard the spark lever due to this as the plate flops around.

[CM2]

is that di electric grease? why the carbon ball contact support?

[plyfor]

I have an original dizzy with the sp plate and original points still intact. Have been thinking about moving the condenser to the upper plate with the stock points but the repro's don't seem to fit near the point screw block. If the new stock condensers by A&L are better than the older repros, perhaps it's better to leave it in the stock location as suggested.

[Guest]

[Jeff/Illinois]

Thanks for the link, I just bought these for a spare set! Thanks Mag. Seven!

[Tom Wesenberg]

is that di electric grease? why the carbon ball contact support?

That's Mystik JT-6 High Temp red grease. I like to balance my rotors. If you put the cam on rotor on a distributor shaft, then spin the shaft at 1000 RPM in a hand drill, you will see why they should be balanced. It's the same benefit as adding counterweights to the crankshaft. It takes the side load off the bushings, other than the points pressure from the rubbing block.

[DaWizard]

Today on my way to cruise night, I had a hiccup, burp, and a fart from my engine while under slight pressure. At the cruise pulled the dizzy cap and rotor to find all's well except the rotor is hitting the top of the movable point arm. Doesn't seem like it is much, but enough to leave the grease smugged on the arm.

Looks like it is time to remove a bit off the bottom and maybe balance at the same time.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Today on my way to cruise night, I had a hiccup, burp, and a fart from my engine while under slight pressure. At the cruise pulled the dizzy cap and rotor to find all's well except the rotor is hitting the top of the movable point arm. Doesn't seem like it is much, but enough to leave the grease smugged on the arm.

Looks like it is time to remove a bit off the bottom and maybe balance at the same time.

Adding plastic and pegs was my first balance, and it works well, but it's quicker and easier to do it the second way I did one. Use a Dremel with cut off wheel to grind away the Bakelite, then add a couple screws and nuts.

Timing Rotor Position.jpg

[BNCHIEF]

thanks Tom that is something i never considered.

[Guest]

Here are some more!
Use the A&L condenser, and get an NORS set of quality points like these for less than the price of MAC's shopping!

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

In the WURRIN' about balancing yo' ROTOR, did you fergit about yo' 3 Months' oiling of your HORN?? Do rotors REALLY turn fast enough to SHAKE???---"Maybe" thet's where those UNKNOWN car vibrations cum frum???
WHY, duz everyone "think" I'm the KRAZY ONE???
Buster T.is just like me & approves this message ! He's smarter than MOST PEOPLE!
KDad Paranoid

[Guest]

Here are some more good USA points at a good price! This time for Model B Distributors. Not my listing.
Though the seller thinks they are Model A, they are not. They are Model B points.

[BAAP]

I believe that the suppliers are selling the A&L unit also, but I do not know so I do not say so. It is usually easier to do an order from one place, so just ask who makes the part they sell. They have always told me when I call and ask.

I know that A&L has been purchasing the stock condensers from Bratton's for years. I think he than adds the solder to the end and puts the correct finish on them.

[plyfor]

I have to amend my statement in post 11. The stock points from A&L which we just rec'd align properly after remembering to adjust the point block !!
Also, A&L's modern condensers have red wires. They are purportedly ok for both 6 and 12 volt applications when mated with the proper coil.
We are experimenting w/ another dizzy with a "hybrid" upper plate set with modern points and the stock looking condenser mounted up next to the coil. This was tried because after pulling the dizzy cap off after a long run, the modern points located at the dizzy were quite hot to the touch .So far, the (12volt) coil with internal resistor is rather warm to touch, but the firewall mounted condenser is a lot less warm to touch than at the dizzy, though probably affected by engine compartment heat. We have seen no difference in operation between the stock points and the modern points set up , though as some suggest , the modern points took more effort to adjust.

[vonheine]

90EBABC4-2354-43AA-B644-8927964896AA.jpeg12D8847D-D1C8-421E-A230-EAE84C9782DC.jpeg I have been using a modern style upper plate. I have found that the quality of the points supplied by the Model A Ford specialty providers is terrible. They are junk. The best points that I have found are BW Select A101V (I think they are better then the Motorcraft and less money.) These points should last a decade. My problem was that I was destroying points like crazy because of electrical system short circuits. I have photographed the Best points and condenser for modern style upper platesFDDE14B4-7603-4BF9-8089-9FAF6A8BD378.jpeg9AC7C5A0-8EFB-4A11-A5FE-EA2BDFDFB608.jpeg

[Kevin in NJ]

I have a jar full of used points. All name brand old stuff and all the point blocks look great.
Based on the 40 years my brother has on the used points in his A (which he thinks nothing of running 55 MPH). Yes the point that came on the car in 1970 are still on the car today.

Other then the rare resetting the points and lubing the cam/ dist bearings he does nothing to them.