So, what's the difference between an alternator and a generator?
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Generator info by Tom Wesenberg
https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...tion-repairing
Electricity 101 by Tom Wesenberg
https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...lectricity-101
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http://www.differencebetween.net/obj...and-generator/3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
Henry Ford said,
"It's all nuts and bolts"
"Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."
Mitch's Auto Service ctr
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Both Generators and Alternator generate electricity by moving a magnetic field through a coil of wire.
In the case of a Generator, a magnetic field is created by the field windings, and the armature (driven by motor pulley) spins inside of the field, generating an electrical output. The commutator on the armature keeps switching which armature windings are passing through the field, such that a Direct Current output is generated.
In the case of an Alternator, the armature is spinning inside the field windings, generating current. However the lack of a commutator means that the alternator is generating AC (Alternating Current) rather than DC (Direct Current) as was the case in the Generator. To convert the AC output of the alternator to DC required to charge the battery, a diode bridge is used.
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Looking from another point of view the difference is authenticity.Mechanical engineering 101: If you put an adjustment knob, screw, bolt, or tolerance specs on something, some people will immediately fiddle with it. If you mark it DO NOT TOUCH everyone will mess with it.
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One reason the alternator generates more electricity at engine idle is because it's spinning a lot faster due to the smaller pulley. My powerhouse will stay on 0 with the lights on and the engine idle at 500 RPM. That's fine with me. If I lived in a hot climate and added air conditioning, then you need more amps to power the fan and clutch coil. A later generator puts out 35 amps and should handle the A/C, except at idle.
As far as engine power to run each, it would be about the same for the same amps being generated.
The old rule of thumb for home generators was 2 gas engine horsepower for each 1000 watts of power.Last edited by Tom Wesenberg; 01-19-2018, 05:09 PM.
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A cogged style belt works best to turn an alternator pulley. It also needs to be adjusted fairly snug which puts stress on the water pump bearing. Those James Ruppert extreme water pumps are designed to withstand those forces. I run them on my generator cars, a superior product IMO3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
Henry Ford said,
"It's all nuts and bolts"
"Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."
Mitch's Auto Service ctr
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Originally posted by GRutter View PostBoth Generators and Alternator generate electricity by moving a magnetic field through a coil of wire.
In the case of a Generator, a magnetic field is created by the field windings, and the armature (driven by motor pulley) spins inside of the field, generating an electrical output. The commutator on the armature keeps switching which armature windings are passing through the field, such that a Direct Current output is generated.
In the case of an Alternator, the armature is spinning inside the field windings, generating current. However the lack of a commutator means that the alternator is generating AC (Alternating Current) rather than DC (Direct Current) as was the case in the Generator. To convert the AC output of the alternator to DC required to charge the battery, a diode bridge is used.
Welcome GRutter!3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
Henry Ford said,
"It's all nuts and bolts"
"Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."
Mitch's Auto Service ctr
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A little off topic, but we had an electrical flareup started by a defective repro cut out that locked down. (1970's).No battery cut off switch was thought about then. The gurus at the time were suggesting bolt -on GM alternators with internal voltage regulation and to avoid moving the generator 3rd brush. After that we've not strayed from1 wire alternators on all 6 volt applications for drivers. Our current 12 volt A runs an alternator as well. In our area, we have one decades old remaining small business that rebuilds generators for the car makes we work on, with no apparent business succession plan....
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All good info, #4 has the most concise story. The diode bridge converts the AC of the alternator to DC, which is what cars need. Another reason alternators can pack so much more juice is because the AC current produced is actually what is termed "3-phase"; this is why there are 6 diodes inside, all 3 phases need to be converted to DC. Having 3-phase (3 sine waves) over the same amount of time means when the diodes have done their converting, the DC waveform will be much flatter and smoother than if it were single phase.
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tex...ve-alternator/Last edited by tbirdtbird; 01-19-2018, 10:39 PM.
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Dave may know the answer to that belt question3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
Henry Ford said,
"It's all nuts and bolts"
"Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."
Mitch's Auto Service ctr
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I have found that some of the belts that are in the O'Reilly, etc, books as 5/8 are really not at all, but in fact 9/16, and they are bottoming out in the smaller alt. pulley, which does not have a deep groove. If they bottom out, then the sidewalls cannot grip, and the concept of a V-belt is lost. It took me a long time to figure this out.
I chuckle when I see so many posters all over the place state that the alt. belts have to be way tighter.
Here is what you need to make it work:
1. I totally agree you need a cogged belt since the alt. pulley is such a small diameter.
2. Go to the website of the manufacturer you want to buy from, eg Gates. Find their cogged belts. Look up a full 5/8 width belt YOURSELF and get the part number for the length you need. I have AC so I need a longer belt and my PN will not help most of you here.. Then, since I can seldom get exactly what I want anymore from O'Reilly's, I order it from Amazon, and that way I have speced out the belt myself and obtained exactly what I needed. Stop on over and you will find my belt to be not crazy tight. I was always taught that regarding the water pump, if you are just barely able to turn the fan blade by hand with the motor off, you have the correct tension. You will find that you can turn our fan blades by hand.
I have long given up on relying on counter guys at the FLAPS to properly look up my parts. I look them up on-line myself first, and then order. And in this case, the specs for the belts on-line and in the books are WRONG
CM2, "industrial 'B'size belt", I do not know what that is. Is that the green so-called fractional HP belts? Why they are termed fractional HP belts is beyond me since they are way better quality than traditional automotive fan beltsLast edited by tbirdtbird; 01-19-2018, 10:33 PM.
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Our parts cross reference has some info under MISC.
There is an industrial cog listed along with some others
https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...ross-reference3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
Henry Ford said,
"It's all nuts and bolts"
"Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."
Mitch's Auto Service ctr
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A simple answer would have SUFFICED, like: "A GENERATOR PRODUCES DIRECT CURRENT & AN ALTERNATOR PRODUCES ALTERNATING CURRENT & CONVERTS IT TO DIRECT CURRENT"----That's ALL the Man wanted to know.----Sorta' like, "I only wanted to know what time it is, NOT how your watch works"!
KDad Simple
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Ive got a delco pulley same size its no shallower or smaller,other than diameter.Fractional horsepower refers to the capability of the industrial V belt...The industrial V belt comes in a letter designation for the width,a model a uses a Gates BX40,the 40 means total length of the belt B is the width. Industrial belts have a softer rubber compound and less fiber belts,they transmit more horsepower at less tension and will handle smaller sheaves,but they dont last as long as modern automotive belt designs.
you only need enough belt tension so the alternator doesnt slip under max load..turn all the lights on and watch the belt as it goes over the sheave..if it jiggles on both sides of the sheave its slipping on just one side its not..a little whip doesnt hurt a thing,other than maybe belt life,cheaper than water pump bearings.Last edited by CM2; 01-19-2018, 11:05 PM.
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Well, I'm better at trouble MAKING than trouble SHOOTING!
Thanks to all you Road Scholars for all the input.To answer George W's question: Our Children IS learning! I installed an alternator and a new Rupert Extreme Duty water pump last summer. I appreciate the lesson, not only on the difference between generators and alternators, but also on the best belts to use.
When were alternators first put into cars?
Mike
All charged up in Oregun
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In the teens, the alternator was tried in at least one car, but the size of the selenium rectifiers made it impractical. MoPar used alternators in 1960, so that's what I consider the first common usage of alternators. GM had them as an option on 1962 Chevrolets, but standard in 1963.
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One of the few actual solid improvements,an alternator.I love a period specific parts,like a generator,a model a purist is right about it's amperage and function however the mechanic in the purist sees the benefits of an alternator,like modern chemicals and adhesives its just better....ugly,but better. The further I get back into A's the more I see,make a driver and make a stocker..cant do fine point...but one the way the Rouge produced them? yes...
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by MitchGenerator Brushes and Adjustment and How It Works.
By :: Tom Wesenberg
I'm asked quite often about brush adjustment and how they work, so hopefully these pictures will help.
The first picture is a cutaway taken at the Model A museum at Gilmore Auto Museum in Hickory Corners, Michigan. The second picture shows the 3 brushes. This happens to be the style...You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 2 photos.-
Channel: Electrical Reference
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I have a powerhouse generator to test for a club member. I came home to record snowfall, and it will take some time to shovel my way into my building with my generator tester. I figured I'll do a few preliminary checks to see if the generator needs to be repaired. First I connected my 6 amp 6 volt battery charger to the output stud and mounting bracket. The generator motored in the correct direction...
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by conaway2I’ve read a lot of posts on this, but the procedure still isn’t completely clear to me.
I’ve just disassembled a generator to re-wrap the field coils with Scotch glass electrical tape, and then cleaned and re-assembled it.
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If I connect...-
Channel: Model A Forum
12-15-2020, 06:07 PM -
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by old31Besides an alternator having the ability to charge at a very low rpm, is there any other reason to switch from a generator?
I am running led's in the rear, 32/50's in the front and a Tickin through tIme hidden directional light system, and 6 V.-
Channel: Model A Forum
08-06-2018, 05:52 PM -
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by Jamey EIf a person wanted to change their car back as it would have been originally, with a generator, what would you have to do to make it correct? We have a new alternator now on the car & have access to a couple generators. Thanks...
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Channel: Model A Forum
08-06-2019, 02:57 PM -
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by 01AI wanted to share an experience with the no output issue I had with the generator that has a stock cutout. The ammeter needle was not showing a charge. Referencing some ideas from this forum I tried jumping the cutout while increasing rpm's to rule out a bad cutout, but no improvement. Then tried motoring the generator. The generator motored just fine. What I eventually found was the generator output...
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by camper#1Generator puts out 18 amps driving speed. Third brush adjustment makes no difference. Discovered third brush wire shredded and disconnected. Soldered on new wire, new bearing, new brushes, same results. Third brush all the way up and still a study 18 amps driving speed. What could the problem?
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by ndnchfMy new-to-me '31 CCPU has a very nice high output Nurex 6v, + ground alternator. It works perfectly. The truck is nowhere near show quality, definately driver grade. There are many incorrect little things on it. But none so obnoxious looking as the alternator.
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by Tudor31The generator repair shop tested an old Model A generator I have had for some years. They claimed that it didn't charge and that it was probably burned out. Since I don't use it or need it I decided to take it apart to try to learn something about the construction and function and possibly repair it. Here is the question: If the battery doesn't function well and the generator goes into a runaway...
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My 20-year-old Peterson voltage regulator has shorted out for the last time. I’m on the waiting list for a new fun projects. In the meantime I was going to just rebuild a generator out of the 30 or so junkers I have laying around and I found one with brand new red field windings in it. But I don’t know if they are 12 or 6 V. The other thing is, I found a horrible generator with a electronic board...You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 2 photos.-
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