KingPin Removal

[Beauford]

My king pin is totally rusted in. I have locking nut and pin removed. I have placed a pipe wrench and beat it with a mini sledge on top to get it to break free and turn. I have heated it with just the little MAP gas can. I have but a 2x air hammer under it and nothing. I really dont want to pull the front end and have them pressed out as I do not have the room. Any tricks?

[Afordman31]

Sometimes you can heat something rusted then drop it in cold water, might take a few times heating it up.

[Mitch]

I had one once that we cut the top off then drove it downwards. This gives you more swinging room, but i'm not sure if your mapp gas is good enough. It depends on how stuck it is

We usually have the axle out when doing this job

A press is another option

[Beauford]

You are a funny guy....CLICK! LOL

[George Miller]

If you are driving it out, you might be swelling the end of the pin. I would cut it off like Mitch said. Then put some thing real solid under the axle, not a jack. Then take a round shaft a little smaller than the pin and drive it out from the top, with a big hammer.

Also support the axle as close to the king pin as you can. That will take the bounce out. If all that does not work, you will have to heat it hot then cool it with water. Only do that as a last resort.

[Mitch]

You will have the hole in the king pin showing where the brake actuator pin goes after you cut the top off.. Stick a bolt in that hole and hammer on the bolt head.
This will help from mushrooming the king pin.

[Mickey]

You might also drill out the hole where the actuations pin was with successively larger drill bits. That will weaken the wall of the king pin and it will be more likely to let go. Also you want to use a lot of penetrating oil.

[Beauford]

90 year old bearing LOL Think it needs grease??

[DaWizard]

Beauford, kinda hard too tell from that angle!

[Afordman31]

When I pressed mine out with a hydraulic press and some heat it sounded like a shotgun blast when it broke loose!

[Beauford]

I can't move my arm any more with sledge and its only moved 1/8 inch.....death wobble my ass. Fixing it will kill ya!!

[Mitch]

Time for plan B i mean D

[Beauford]

Don’t make me ban you from your own site. Lol.

[George Miller]

One of my jobs when I was young was working at a Ford dealer. Because I was the new kid on the block, I got the jobs no one else wanted. So when the big trucks came in for king pin bushing I got the job. The front of the trucks were heavy so what I did was use screw jack with a short round rod that was smaller in dia. than the king pin. Put the jack under the axle at the king pin. Then jack the axle up to put the weight of the truck on pushing the king pin out. Then hit the axle with sledge hammer. That did it.

.

[Beauford]

I bet this Pin could support the whole truck hanging. The damn thing was loose wiggling the tire front and back that is why I wanted to replace everything....shows how loose it really was???

[H. L. Chauvin]

Lots of real good suggestions above.

With not being able to actually "see" the condition of the front axle and not seeing this one (1) hard to remove king pin, was the other king pin easily removed already?

Is it maybe possible someone already tried to remove this king pin years ago where the bottom side was beaten until it expanded like a rivet?

The method of applying pressure plus striking with a hammer as mentioned in reply no.11 is usually best when all else fails.

If it were mine, I would at least try something similar to this:

A. Cut two (2) short lengths of about 9/16" diameter steel bolts, (smaller than king pin diameter). (*)

B. Place one length of bolt directly under the king pin.

C. Place the other length of bolt under the axle, located approximately 4" on the in-side of the king pin, i.e.,towards the center bottom of the axle.

D. Place about a 3/4" x3/4" steel square bar about 5-1/2" long parallel to and under the (2) bolts i.e., also under the axle.

E. Secure the in-side end of the square bar to the bottom of the axle with a metal clamp where the length of bolt is sandwiched between the bar and the axle. (May be better if this in-side bolt were tack welded to this square bar.)

F. Secure the out-side end of the bar, (towards the wheel), with a similarly positioned heavy duty clamp, located on the in-side of the king pin. (May be better if this out-side bolt under the king pin were tack welded to this square bar also.)

G. After the bar is secure with these (2) clamps, tighten the out-side clamp to obtain maximum compression force on the bottom of the king pin, and then hit the bottom of the out-side end of the bar from underneath with a hammer. (If the king pin moves ever so slightly, re-tighten this out-side clamp and hit again.)

H. This heavy duty out-side clamp can apply far more force on the bottom of the king pin than the force applied with only the gravitational weight of a front corner of a Model A vehicle.

(*) Lengths of bolts will have to be adjusted so bottom bar can apply force to bottom of king pin.

[Beauford]

H.L., I will look around and attempt your method. I have not attempted the other kingpin as the one I'm working on had the most movement so it got picked first. The pins have no marks. Mother nature did this to them. Decades of the chassis in the elements. Heat and PB blaster so fat have only yielded 1/8.

[BNCHIEF]

Beau if you put a couple jack stands under the frame you could remove everything down to the axle itself use a spring spreader and drop the axle out where you can get to it this would also be a good time to inspect shackles and all related moving parts so you get every possible problem done at once and those spring perches can be a bear as well hence press. I know you said your a little short on room but just put the parts in the box after you cover it, This would be the best thing to do, but i am not sure what all you have done. good luck

[Kevin in NJ]

First I will admit I have never had an axle with a stuck kingpin. Here is some advice based on my other experiences.

Take the axle off the car.

Yes it is a lot of work, but it is the best first step. You see you can not effectively use force on the axle because it moves. You lose too much energy on each hit to be effective. You NEVER want to heat the axle past the point where grease starts to smoke (in the 400 degree range) as it make it not as strong. Mulitple heating cycles with a water quench may help, if you are getting enough heat where there is a problem.

When I go to use a long throw air hammer to get spring perches out I clamp them in my vice that weighs around 100 lbs mounted to a heavy bench. You can not have any small movements as you will loose all the force. So you will need to figure out how to clamp the axle solidly.

To get the perches out I have an automotive long throw (about 3") air hammer. The automotive units have a large diameter piston with more mass so the force per hit will be more. The aircraft units are 1/2" pistons and are a known hit force to do repeatable aircraft rivet swedging. They have specific charts for the tooling to do a proper swedge. There is nothing wrong with the aircraft units. I am just the kind of person to ask the question, what is the difference? I got the automotive unit by accident at a garage sale when I bought a pile of tools for less then what the air hammer is worth. Was not till I had a pair of perches that would not come out that I tried it. Found you have to push hard into the gun and let it work. You get small movement after a little bit then it really starts to move. After I was done the nut was still able to be use on the slightly mushroomed end. This was after my little 10 ton press did not move the perch.

One last piece of advice. If you find a large old vice that is really heavy that uses like 3/4 or 1" bar for its handle get it. If it take 2 people to lift it, better yet. It will hold stuff and squish stuff like you could never imagine. Mine has a long opening so I can use it to press out bearings with clever use of sockets. I put rivet head forms and squish them for various arms on the A. I know I get full squish with it. It has a lot of mass and lets force stay in the piece you are trying to break free. A 3/4" impact and a large socket and I got all the shock inner covers off easy.
A large heavy old vice is worth every penny. Watch craigslist as they pop up there cheap and they sell fast.

[tbirdtbird]

I had to remove seized kingpins on a '56 GMC truck when I was 20. All I had was propane and a sledge.
I about killed myself, but i got it done. Today, beyond any question, I would remove the axle, to level the playing field.
Once of the nice things about Kevin's method is the vibration set up by the air hammer. Heat and vibration are the way to loosen the fine rust that has locked the pin in.

I once freed up a frozen dizzy on an old cadillac by aiming the needle scaler at the base and let'er rip. No damage was done to anything (just needles), but the vibration was incredible and that loosened it right up

[CM2]

Time to pull the axle,not only is it easier to do the work but bear in mind axles do bend,last thing you want to do is beat a king pin out and alter your camber at the same time...I know it sucks after your diet coke run but draw a breath and pull it down,check everything and do it right,in the end you.ll be glad you did.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Steel and iron are porous; and believe it or not, old "solid" rust is porous.

Old tight and dense compacted "porous" rust requires a special fluid to penetrate it.

Only few want to try this vintage, old time Mechanic-In-A-Can rust penetrating remedy; i.e., mixture of 1/2 Automatic Transmission Fluid + 1/2 Acetone in a "Glass Jar", but it works if applied often and allowed to soak for a few days.

The Glass Jar is often necessary to "see" that this mixture is "thoroughly" mixed prior to applying same. Sometimes some ATF's & some Acetone's do not want to mix; hence, one has to shake the jar immediately prior to application to "see" that one has this uniformly Pink colored vintage solution.

This homemade mix works when one can see it is Pink.

[Mitch]

I agree pull the axle, you still have another side to do. As Chief mentioned above, you can then go over everything else while it's apart. You can bet your dollar that there may be more issues than the king pins.

[BNCHIEF]

After seeing those bearings you can bet on it, now is the time to do the whole front end springs and all while your at it and check that front crossmember for cracks. When you are done you will have piece of mind.

[Beauford]

New Springs, cross member is solid, new tie rod...new everything but axle, king pins and actuating arms and they are in decent shape. New brakes and shoes, new drums, original backing plates with new brake components. Hell, its all new or rebuilt. Just read something about king pins and did the test. Someone with my limited knowledge did not know to check. Now if you want to know how to make sewage water into drinking water I can help you with that....LOL or sell you the equipment.

[Mitch]

Beau
I want to look into using the toilet water for my keurig. Any ideas?

[BNCHIEF]

Beau great is the radius rod ball in good shape?

[Beauford]

Mitch, I can set you up with a gray water filtration system we use in 3rd world countries. LOL

Chief, all my balls are in great shape. One hangs a little lower though.

[CM2]

them aint coffee grounds your chewin on brother

[JDupuis]

Believe it or not, religion sometimes has an effect on the final result.
I usually beat the "hell" out it! Jeff

[Beauford]

JD, I have had shit come out my mouth to make a sailor blush. I told Mitch a match in the gas tank may get them out then I thought I wouldn't get off that easy....

[JDupuis]

The extreme heat from the shop fire might loosen the king pins.
I don't suggest this as an alternative method though. Lol. Jeff

[CM2]

Fire has been very good to me,burnt model a's..I like burnt model a's..you make me blush,and i was a sailor,sailor..

[JDupuis]

If memory serves me right, you made out like a "bandit" on that burnt model A.
Sooooo........add a sailor and a bandit together....me thinks a pirate, maybe? Lol....rolly guy on floor. You know what I mean. Jeff

[Beauford]

Its on now! I got a 20 ton press on the cheap. Just put it together. Gave me a excuse to clean up my work space. It's like Pep Boys in here now and about the same knowledge...hahahahaha

[JDupuis]

My fingers are crossed for you.
And out of the way of the press. Good Luck. Jeff

[Beauford]

Thanks Jeff! I will keep you informed of my progress or lack there of...

[Beauford]

So dropping the front axle but I take off drum and backing plate on other side.....the other king pin comes out with 3 blows....WTH??

[Mitch]

That is because the worn out side was in there beating itself up.

[tbirdtbird]

Once you are done, be certain your grease pathways are totally clear. I'd be putting in new grease fittings. You gotta keep king pins greased well and often. If you do, they will last a long time. Jack up the car and turn the wheels left and right as you are greasing, grease the hell out of them, and do it often.

Also, check the tightness of your lock pins periodically, they like to loosen up. I whack 'em from the front then take up what I can with the nut. If you try to tighten the hell out of them with only the nut you can strip the threads

[BNCHIEF]

Amen to what t-bird said I also use mobil synthetic grease just my choice.

[Beauford]

The press is scaring me...lot of creaking. (like rust cracking or my axle) Shattered a socket and now using other pin with head cut off. Just hard to get a whole axle good and level so I need to use something shorter so there is no tilting.

[Mitch]

Sometimes i put my goggles on and a welding helmet on over them. Then i tie on my full body welding apron.. It does get scary sometimes

You can't press using a HF socket either

[CM2]

When you get a load on the pin with the press whack the axle a few times with a hammer,vibration works wonders,especially when combined with press load..

[Mitch]

Move your press table up to the pump as close as you can. Always press using the shortest distance. Place a strong steel cup under the spindle, this will help to steady the ASSY. I have an assortment of metal disc brake caliper pistons. I also use the cups that came with my ball joint press tool. As the pin presses it will go into the cup.

[Afordman31]

I used my cherry picker to hold the axle while I pressed out the kingpin as I was working alone!

[H. L. Chauvin]

FWIW, during king pin/spindle re-assembly ...... especially on an 85+ year old worn assembly::

1. Make sure the top & bottom spindle bushings cannot rotate inside the left and right spindles.

2. The holes in the top & bottom spindle bushings have to line up with the spindle holes for the spindle grease fittings.

3. If either the top and/or bottom bushings in the spindles "can" rotate inside the spindle, the bushing hole can rotate with the bushing to where it will not be aligned with the spindle grease fitting.

4. If this happens, the king pins and spindle bushings will not be able to receive needed grease lubrication.

[Beauford]

10-4 H.L. There is a excellent Model A King Pin Video on youtube that talks about this..

[Beauford]

socket I put under knuckle...thought pin broke free..nope Husky broke.

[Beauford]

Wiz, seemed like you have done this before! HAHAAHA! This socket was just a stress reliever on the bottom but you guessed right. I was hold everything and do it all at once. My back will know tomorrow. I have a fellow Model Aer 30mins away who has a torch. He said he would get it out or melt the axle.