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Tight (very) Rear end!

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  • Tight (very) Rear end!

    Bought a rear end for my coupe ! It was tight and the drums were on it. It had been laying out side and while it had some rust, it wasn't any more than a rear in a car. It was so tight I had to use a pipe wrench to turn it. I figured the drums were binding. It turned a little easier after we freed it up a little. I got the drums off and while they were tight, it still isn't what I'd call acceptable. Anyone got any ideas? The guy I bought it from said it may have been rebuilt by his father. Is a rebuilt rear that tight?

  • #2
    How are you turning it? Did you look inside the fill and drain plugs with a flashlight? Is the turtle still mounted? Do you see rust inside where the turtle would be? How about looking in from the splined section of the driveshaft? Do you see rust where the axles come through the trumpets?
    3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
    Henry Ford said,
    "It's all nuts and bolts"
    "Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."

    Mitch's Auto Service ctr


    • #3
      In my early experiences, if you placed a U-joint on the end and were able to turn the driveshaft by hand, it was a good rear end. If you needed more help than that it was questionable and should be looked at deeper. These were the guidelines we used 45+ years ago and I believe them to be a decent guide today. If there is oil in the diff there shouldn't be any noise, if there was noise, it needed to be looked at. Surface rust was acceptable, though frowned on.
      You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!


      • #4
        I would remove the torque tube with driveshaft, and see how tight the shaft is in the torque tube. If someone use foot pounds instead of inch pounds to tighten the pinion preload, then it will be 12 times as tight as it should be, and I've seen this happen.


        • Greynomad
          Greynomad commented
          Editing a comment
          I've had to repair a couple of "rebuilt" diffs where exactly that was done. The pinion bearings were toast in no time so they came to me. I can do without having to fix some other #$%^&head's screw up. (Angry face)

        • Mitch
          Mitch commented
          Editing a comment
          Hey Arnold use an emoji.

      • #5

        "May have been rebuilt by his father"
        says lots.

        Maybe just me, but I have learned from experiences not to trust any Model A doubtful & concealed components or things obtained from uninformed others.

        Dropping an oil pan, opening a transmission, opening a differential, and exposing what is going on inside mechanically can render unquestionable peace of mind and future life safety.

        I called a Model A guy years ago who told me he bought a Model A that was close to perfect. He got in it, and tried to drive about 150 miles to his home when he heard the differential grinding.

        He stopped at a service station and even though so simple a find, found out the former owner drained this totally re-built differential and forgot to refill it.

        No doubt other Model A owners could relate similar experiences for years.


        • #6
          Ever feel totally stupid? I mean totally, irrevocable stupid! Well I do! So instead of doing all those properly investigative things, I trusted the guy and paid him after we got it to turn + a $20 delivery "donation" from Monroe, NJ to Perkasie Pa. I was fair with him. He was a Tool and Diemaker and we talked shop for an hour. Today, I tore into it! First, I put about a cup of diesel into and started to turn it and it freed itself, then the turning (by hand now) was noisy and kinda rough. This calls for more disassembly AARRRGGGHHH. So I bit the bullet and took the left trumpet off. Red rust on the gears, the spiders were stuck (they quickly freed up though). There was also a great amount of wear on the teeth of the ring gear, more than I want to have in my car. I will call this guy up and ask for my money back.


          • #7
            Wish I had those 45 years! This is my first time out with a model A rear. All the guys around here are getting so old they forget what they used to know.

            Originally posted by DaWizard View Post
            In my early experiences, if you placed a U-joint on the end and were able to turn the driveshaft by hand, it was a good rear end. If you needed more help than that it was questionable and should be looked at deeper. These were the guidelines we used 45+ years ago and I believe them to be a decent guide today. If there is oil in the diff there shouldn't be any noise, if there was noise, it needed to be looked at. Surface rust was acceptable, though frowned on.


            • CarlG
              CarlG commented
              Editing a comment
              I was actually surprised at just how much of my Dad's teachings came back to me when I got my current Model A. It had been 50+ years since I had had one, and I was a teenager then.

          • #8
            You might have seen some of this rust by looking in the fill and drain holes with a flash light
            3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
            Henry Ford said,
            "It's all nuts and bolts"
            "Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."

            Mitch's Auto Service ctr


            • #9
              In my business, today's Ministers are the very worse. First, they want it for free, then we have to call their Bishop to try to get paid ... but this does not always work.

              One very old very trustworthy Minister told me there are far more Pew People in Heaven than Ministers ..... I personally think like St. Francis .... there may be more Dogs in Heaven than Pew People ...... Mr. Bill Williamson with his most infinite wisdom might like to add something about his trusty companion Buster T ..... LOL


              • #10
                Hey Terry there is another guy on the other site with the same problem. Maybe he could help you. Good luck and keep us posted.


                • #11
                  Terry, if you find two let me know...want a spare to rebuild!!


                  • pAAt
                    pAAt commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Beauford, I'll check what I have and if I have one, I'll throw it in the truck for the April weekend in Tennessee. pAAt

                  • Beauford
                    Beauford commented
                    Editing a comment
                    pAAT, let me know what you need for it. I just want to start getting parts here and there and learn as well how to do one. Surely I wont be lucky with the only part I have that hasn't been rebuilt or replaced. My luck doesnt run that way...LOL

                  • pAAt
                    pAAt commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Beauford, pair of those socks if I can find a high speed rear axle in the pile. I'll talk with you more when April gets closer. Pat

                  • Beauford
                    Beauford commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Some of the famous garage safety socks? LOL I am just looking for one any speed with good threads. Hell might buy the parts and do it at the work shop! Yeah keep me in mind in April!

                • #12
                  I thought this was entirely something else
                  Alaskan A's
                  Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska
                  Model A Ford Club of America
                  Model A Restorers Club
                  Antique Automobile Club of America
                  Mullins Owners Club


                  • #13
                    All is not lost,depending on what you paid for it,if the two axle shafts are good you can recoup a little coin,same thing with the axle housings,if the bottom of the outer bearing race isn't worn they are money as well..I never go back and bitch when I've been burned,I learn and adapt so it doesn't happen again..

                    damn shame you aint closer,got a cherry one for 75 bucks last summer,even the brakes were good.


                    • #14
                      Hi Terry,

                      In my opinion, you are sincerely one of the most wonderful, sincere, and honorable gentleman on this VFF Forum for later posting the truth about your unexpected Model A part purchase experience.

                      Everybody at one time or another in life will get rooked; but, so many are far too proud to freely later admit their mistakes like you just did.

                      Your Posted Message of paying for a worn rust damaged piece of junk is extremely educational and an eye opener for anyone trying to buy "used" Model A parts from "private individual strangers" who may be local, and/or have ads in Hemming Motor News, Ebay, newspapers, magazines, or ads from wherever.

                      I will admit I got stuck as a teenager with buying a cracked block in 1959 from a middle aged crooked jerk who owned a Model A; also bought advertised 1930 Model A fenders about 20 years ago and received 1929 fenders.

                      We always read where some Model A Forum bragging member bought a perfect Model A something worth $150.00 from some old widow for $2.00; but never about his bad deals.

                      In keeping with Mr.Carl G's above questioning the title of this post, you could tell the seller where to shove this differential you just purchased; but in my opinion, this shrewd seller's Rear End is Far Too Tight.



                      • #15
                        HL I bought one of those fenders too! Anyone want a good 29 sedan R R fender? I try to uphold some sense of standards of honesty. I don't sell many parts but I never "Japped" anyone like this. And I try to get the real picture of the parts out in front so no one will feel this way after the purchase. As a very successful friend often says, "Anyone can make the first sale, but can you make the the second?". I have called this guy a couple of times and he's not answering.


                        • #16
                          Bring the Diff to Brent's workshop
                          3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
                          Henry Ford said,
                          "It's all nuts and bolts"
                          "Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."

                          Mitch's Auto Service ctr


                          • #17
                            Hi Terry,

                            With sincere compassion, most of us Model A owners can relate to your tight rear end dilemma!

                            Success usually happens only for those few intelligent individuals who take chances.

                            It has been told that dealing with very intense stress during one's "short" life on Earth, this intense stress issue was once addressed in a Class .... by a College Professor .... with a student extending his/her hand outward and holding a half-full glass of water.

                            All students immediately thought this was the old half-empty glass; or, half-full glass of water test .... indicating different types of human "positive" reactions vs. human "negative" reactions after looking at this half-glass.

                            However, the student was asked to hold the half-glass for a longer period of time until his/her arm got extremely tired and started to hurt and tremble.

                            The Professor indicated that the moral of this story was ............. whether one has a "positive" or "negative" attitude, forget if the half-glass is half-empty or half-full, if it is heavy, just drop the heavy half-glass, and get on with Life.

                            Appears sooner or later, we all learn that life is full of similar Model A "Tight Rear End" salesmen jerks ...... if he won't answer his phone calls, as difficult as it may appear, please, just try dropping this one (1) half-glass of water.

                            However, some people are quite different. If this Professor's proposal does not "totally" ease the stress for every Model A Forum member, one could try buying a Voodoo Doll, tie it to the Model A differential, and stick a needle in the doll's Rear End every time one passes by this Model A differential.

                            Sincerely hope this helps ........ "Tight Rear End" salesmen jerks are everywhere and are dime a dozen, and life really is so darn "Short".


                            • #18
                              That selection of words, "Tight rear end" was an unfortunate choice of words! I was thinking only of this differential that didn't turn very easily, not considering what some horney bast**rd would see it as, LOL! I was somewhat distracted by my anger and not thinking of the possibilities.


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