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  • Brumfield 5.9 head

    A couple of questions:
    Should the head be torqued to 60 '#, not 55 ?
    Also, points set at what gap for best performance ?

  • #2
    I had this saved on my computer since OCT 19 / 2012 @ 3:17pm



    David, the following instructions are what I tell Brumfield High Compression Head users. If you have a stock head and follow these instructions you will have success (as long as nothing is cracked). Change the final torque amount to 55 pounds.
    1. Make sure the block is not off more than .002 of an inch in flatness as measured in the center with a machinist straight-edge that spans the length of the block's gasket area and use accurate feeler gauges with good edges to measure.

    2. Make sure the head is not off more than .002 of an inch (preferably less) in flatness as measured in the center in the same manner as with the block. If it is then have it resurfaced and make sure the surface finish made by the machine is between RMS 90-110 which is just rough enough to feel with your fingernail. You don't want a mirror smooth finish on a flat head nor do you want too rough a texture either. A slight texture on a flat head tends to grip the gasket and that's what you need.

    3. On a Brumfield Head, use a new copper-clad FEL-PRO 7013 C head gasket and NO OTHER. We install them with a light coating of chassis grease smeared across them and that's all. However, you can use spray sealer if you like; copper coat spray by Permatex for example, BUT apply just enough to cover on both sides with no runs and that's it; and install the gasket and head while the coating is STILL STICKY, very important. If you let the sealer dry and then install the gasket, it can cause leaks.

    4. Check the condition of the studs and nuts. You need studs and nuts that have good threads and a high enough grade strength to accurately hold a final torque amount of 60 to 65 pounds, applied with an accurate torque wrench. Grade 8 studs and nuts are what you need.

    5. Make sure the stud bosses where the nuts make contact are free of paint and are smooth clean metal. Apply a drop of motor oil to each boss so the bottom of the nut can slide on it.

    6. Torque in sequence following the pattern below. Start with finger tight on each, then say 20 pounds or so on each, then 40, then a final amount of 60 to 65 (no less than 60 on a Regular B-F head 5.9). The torque is dry torque or lightly oiled with motor oil which improves the accuracy.

    7. After you have reached the final torque amount and have run the engine ALWAYS RE-torque using this method and also perform the RE-torques with the engine cooled off:

    Starting at Nut #1, loosen each nut 1/8 of a turn and then in one uninterrupted motion, torque the nut back to the final torque amount. Do this one at a time in sequence. Don't loosen them all at once. Please re-torque every time in this manner, very important! Usually about 3 re-torques are enough; run engine (i.e., drive the car), cool off then re-torque.
    8. Do not use a gasket beneath the water neck. Make sure the neck is flat (if it's not then have it machined flat) and use a light smear of RTV silicone instead of a gasket. Using a gasket with a higher torque amount of 60 pounds will often break the neck.

    Here's the torque sequence:

    Front ------->

    #10 .... #4 .... #2 .. #5 ....#11
    #14 ... #8 ..... #1 ... #7 ...#13
    ....#12 .... #6 ... #3 ....#9

    Distributor side


    Larry Brumfield \\
    3 ~ Tudor's
    Henry Ford said
    "It's all nuts and bolts"


    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

    Comment


    • #3
      Those are the correct instructions from Mitch. (as always) The point gap at 20 is where I have mine with my Brumfield 5.9 and I have noticed is does not take as much spark advance on the spark lever to find a sweet spot as a regular head.

      Comment


      • #4
        There is a LONG, lively discussion (sorry Mitch) on AHOOGA now on how to torque a head, Larry is one of the contributors. Interesting reading. FWIW
        Paul in CT

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks all. What's confusing is it says change the torque amount "to" 55 #. We have many accurate torque wrenches and thought 65 was a little much. Art, we've noted the same spark advance experience as you with the new modern points at .019 whereby the engine is happy at about 5/8" down the quadrant at 35 mph. Perhaps we should go to .020 in case of wear-in. Also, engine "cool off" can mean different things, the head still warm to touch , cool to touch, etc.
          Another related performance issue (on new engine, manifolds, etc.) has been how sensitive our Marvel carb. settings are. 1/4 open on new idle mixture screw and about 1/2 to 5/8 open on GAV at 35mph, coupled with attention to the advance adjustment on steep hills.
          Last edited by plyfor; 12-31-2017, 10:40 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            the points setting does not change with a high CR head, but the advance does

            Comment


            • BNCHIEF
              BNCHIEF commented
              Editing a comment
              Exactly.

            • George Miller
              George Miller commented
              Editing a comment
              right on. On my 7-1 head it runs best at about 1/3 down on the lever.

          • #7
            I'm using ARP studs with the proper chrome acorn nuts torqued to 60 pounds on my Brumfield Super Head

            Comment


            • Mark Maron
              Mark Maron commented
              Editing a comment
              Chrome Acorn nuts???????

            • Denis4x4
              Denis4x4 commented
              Editing a comment
              ARP makes chrome acorn nuts so that you don't have to use the chrome covers over the stock head nuts. Everybody knows that the chrome nut covers add at least 2HP.

            • BNCHIEF
              BNCHIEF commented
              Editing a comment
              Where can I get these Dennis 4x4 and what polish do you recommend to keep them looking like new.

          • #8
            Now I see Brumfield means 55 for stock head in the par 1 above.
            Went over to the Ahooga site and lots of discussion about warm vs. cold engine. (No classifieds appear to be beyond 2016 ?).
            Perhaps a compromise would imply an engine slightly warm to touch in winter weather.

            Comment


            • Mike V. Florida
              Mike V. Florida commented
              Editing a comment
              Yea he missed my point altogether.

          • #9
            FWIW the service bulletins specify warm engine, I posted this somewhere on here months ago

            Everyone does it differently so it may not matter

            Comment


          • #10
            I am concerened about the gasket that is recommended NOW it has been recommended to use the "best Gasket" that i used.

            Comment


            • Dennis
              Dennis commented
              Editing a comment
              If you are talking about the Best 573 graphite, then it won't pass judging but IMHO is the best gasket out there for no leaks and holding torque. Mine is spotless after over 3k miles.

            • Mark Maron
              Mark Maron commented
              Editing a comment
              dennis of course it won't pass judging...LOL....but i did not think that part of the conversation mattered. I have a snyders 6:1 and only use the Best Gasket...for it...and like you its perfect at 3025 miles now.....

          • #11
            Torque settings are used to pull the stretch out of the stud,so the clamping force is consistent and the nut does not require any locking device,the stud in tension locks the nut. Timing becomes critical,the effects of detonation on the main bearings is increased with rise in compression.

            Comment


            • #12
              Originally posted by Mark Maron View Post
              I am concerened about the gasket that is recommended NOW it has been recommended to use the "best Gasket" that i used.
              Mark, I asked if the Best Gasket or any other was recommended on a Brumfield head in a post on Ahooga a few months ago just to get an answer from Larry Brumfield and he gave a stern "Not by me" answer. I went with his advice. Art

              Comment


              • #13
                Is a new Brumfield fresh off the shelf still available?

                Comment


                • Mike V. Florida
                  Mike V. Florida commented
                  Editing a comment
                  No

                • Dennis
                  Dennis commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I didn't think so... just thought I'd ask.

              • #14
                I think he stopped making them Dennis.

                Comment


                • #15
                  None available now, there was some talk that if the economy improves (I think it has, did quite well last year) that he "might" re-tool. JMO
                  Paul in CT

                  Comment


                  • Mark Maron
                    Mark Maron commented
                    Editing a comment
                    What would be the advantages over the Snyder’s 6:1 head??

                  • CarlG
                    CarlG commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Same story I heard 7 years ago when I started looking. Settled for a Snyder 5.5, been happy with that one.

                • #16
                  There is also a lion head out there as well, but that is another story.

                  Comment


                  • #17
                    We though a smaller point gap reduced dwell and better advance control at full retard idle, for the higher compression heads.
                    Last edited by plyfor; 01-01-2018, 12:38 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #18
                      A smaller point gap gives more dwell, which is the time the points are closed.

                      Comment


                      • #19
                        dwell is related to spark intensity ie the amount of time the coil saturates

                        total advance and rate of advance is related to compression ratio

                        There is no relationship of points gap to compression ratio
                        Last edited by tbirdtbird; 01-01-2018, 07:23 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #20
                          Exactly what Tbird said the more dwell the more coil saturation a good thing, with hi compression head you need less total advance to prevent pre-detonation. A stock A can use more advance because the valve lift etc is different than an engine that has a cam with more lift and duration. On a higher compression engine you also want to spread the advance out over a wider rpm range. Learning to use that advance lever correctly and listening and getting a feel for these engines is what you want to do. The model a engine is much like a diesel in a class 8 truck it is torque and low rpm and lugging an A or any engine is not good. There is a rpm which gives the greatest torque at lower rpm and more horsepower but less torque at higher rpm. These are what you look for on a dyno, distributor would need to be run on a distributor machine to help you dial in what you are trying to do which you control with springs (summit sells these springs) BOTTOM LINE dwell and point gap do not have any thing to do with it where the points break and the plug fires in relation to piston position. This is what you want to know or how many degrees BTDC the plug fires(advance). And of course this all has to do with how the engine is built.

                          Comment


                          • #21
                            Oops, I meant "spark plug gap for best performance" ; a clogged head with the flu doesn't help !
                            We set our BF head- engine with .020 points and .032 Champ 518 plug gap and wasn't sure if this is OK. Being new to HC heads in an A, we find the advance range appears less than with a stock head.
                            Last edited by plyfor; 01-02-2018, 12:18 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #22
                              "We set our BF head- engine with .020 points and .032 Champ 518 plug gap and wasn't sure if this is OK."

                              That should be just fine.

                              "Being new to HC heads in an A, we find the advance range appears less than with a stock head.
                              "

                              This is a very true statement. The mix will fire off quicker if the compression is higher. A HC head, amongst other things, has the same effect as advancing the timing
                              Last edited by tbirdtbird; 01-02-2018, 06:16 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #23
                                Originally posted by plyfor View Post
                                Oops, I meant "spark plug gap for best performance" ; a clogged head with the flu doesn't help !
                                We set our BF head- engine with .020 points and .032 Champ 518 plug gap and wasn't sure if this is OK. Being new to HC heads in an A, we find the advance range appears less than with a stock head.
                                I kind of figured that's what you were really wanting to know, but I answered as I read the question. The higher the compression, the more voltage is required to jump the plug gap, so some people tighten the gap. If a coil can't fire a plug with .032" gap and full throttle, then the coil is too weak. Remember, more throttle means more air, which means more compression, and higher voltage required.

                                With the higher compression head you'll get more heat developed during compression, and the air molecules are tighter together, so the flame spreads quicker. You want maximum cylinder pressure (pressure from the burning mix) to occur after TDC, so you'll use less advance with the higher compression. You can tell the best advance for a given speed by moving the spark lever down until you no longer feel an increase of speed or power, and DON"T have knock. You also don't want knock when you have to give it gas to pass the Mustangs on the road. Yes, of course I'm talking the 4 legged Mustangs. LOL

                                Comment


                                • tbirdtbird
                                  tbirdtbird commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  "The higher the compression, the more voltage is required to jump the plug gap, so some people tighten the gap."
                                  This is also true. You wouldn't normally expect to need to do that with a 6.0 CR head, since for a great many cars that is hardly considered high compression.

                                  Max cylinder pressure should occur at 14° ATC

                              • #24
                                Thanks all. Questions answered. We checked the (12v) coil recently and the internal resistance was 4.5 ohms. A new spare coil was 4.6 ohms.

                                Comment

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