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  • Rear hydraulic brakes issue

    I took my rear hubs off to put on the shock brackets for my Ken Davis shock kit. I got the rear bearings re-greased while I had it apart. The brake shoes and everything looked good. I put it all back together now the brakes are way too tight. I didn’t adjust anything but my easy spinning perfectly adjusted rear brakes will hardly turn now.
    While the hubs were both off I pumped the brake pedal- did this knock something out of adjustment?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Curly View Post
    While the hubs were both off I pumped the brake pedal- did this knock something out of adjustment?
    Oh Curly, when you have nothing for the brake shoes to press against, you NEVER pump the brakes! What you will need to do is pull the hubs again, take a C-clamp and something to press on the pistons and press the fluid back into the master cylinder. Be sure after you do this, reinstall the hubs and THEN you can pump the brakes back up.

    Bad Curly.....bad bad bad.
    You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

    Comment


    • #3
      Damn...

      Comment


      • DaWizard
        DaWizard commented
        Editing a comment
        You might be able to back off the adjusters, but then that will upset the balance of the shoes to drum needlessly.

        Oh, one thing, do them separately because if you remove both drums, you will only pump the fluid across to the other side, unless you have some type of strap wrench than you can close around the shoes to squeeze the fluid back into the master cylinder.
        Last edited by DaWizard; 12-25-2017, 01:39 AM.

    • #4
      all steel,from the pedal to the wheel

      Comment


      • #5
        I’ll pull them tomorrow. Will I need to remove the shoes?

        Comment


        • DaWizard
          DaWizard commented
          Editing a comment
          Well, possibly, unless you can figure a way to get the wheel pistons back in a bit. You might be able to just shove the shoes together and fix it that way. Try one side without taking the shoes off, just press against the shoes with your hands just opposite the wheel cylinder. It really shouldn't take that much pressure. Oh, one other thing, I would pull the cap off the master cylinder and remove some of the fluid. You can use a turkey baster to do that, or a syringe, that way if you push too much fluid back, you don't overflow brake fluid all over the paint job. That is a no no.

      • #6
        Are the brakes going to need to be re-adjusted or bled?

        Comment


        • BNCHIEF
          BNCHIEF commented
          Editing a comment
          Curly you can get one of those cheap brake bleeders, crack the bleeder with a paper towel around it and drain off a little brake fluid this will let you pull the shoes together you can also use a small motorcycle racheting strap to pull the shoes together so you do not damage the brake lining finish up reinstall hubs rebleed brakes. That is how I have done it myself.

      • #7
        So we’re the drums harder to get back on?
        You will only have to bleed if you popped out a wheel cylinder cup and lost fluid. Highly doubtful if there was no mess back there. You should be able to reseat them easily. Make sure its not being held tight by the E brake
        3 ~ Tudor's
        Henry Ford said
        "It's all nuts and bolts"


        Mitch's Auto Service ctr

        Comment


        • #8
          He said he stepped on the pedal maybe not that much but good point Mitch.

          Comment


          • #9
            Truck is ruined. You will need to scrap it. I can offer you 10 cents a pound.
            Alaskan A's
            Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska
            Model A Ford Club of America
            Model A Restorers Club
            Antique Automobile Club of America
            Mullins Owners Club

            Comment


            • pAAt
              pAAt commented
              Editing a comment
              You build a new garage for Christmas, Carl ? Happy New year if you did

          • #10
            Hmmm. I've never had this problem with my original mechanical brakes...

            Comment


            • #11
              Originally posted by Ray Horton View Post
              Hmmm. I've never had this problem with my original mechanical brakes...
              Bad timing Ray. Comments like that are better suited for another Model A forum.

              Comment


              • #12
                I got one taken apart and inspected. No damage or fluid found. I pushed the shoes in with a carpenters clamp.
                What is the purpose of this shim? I assume it’s a spacer to take up worn shaft play?
                It turns a bit nicer without it in.

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                Comment


                • #13
                  Curly, that looks like the axle taper shim, and after you place the nut on and tighten that up I bet the drum binds up without it. Put the shim back in and tighten up the nut and place cotter pin in. Remember, IF you need to move the nut after properly tightening it up, turn the nut tighter to align the cotter pin hole. DO NOT loosen the nut to line up the hole!
                  You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

                  Comment


                  • Curly
                    Curly commented
                    Editing a comment
                    DaWizard, I can’t thank you enough. I got things fixed up. I’m not a great wrench but I enjoy doing it. Carl and a couple other local club members normally answer my questions but this one really had me puzzled.
                    I think the tapered shim was part of my problem. It may have been in too far. The shoes may not have even been out. I gently clamped them in but I can’t say with certainty that they moved in much. Anyway the hubs are turning nicely now.
                    Do they make various thickness shims? Is that shim to compensate for wear?

                • #14
                  I'm with Wiz, If the shim was there reinstall it.. Make sure you put the axle key taper back properly
                  https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...ll-orientation

                  You should be good to go without bleeding since nothing leaked out

                  go brother go!!
                  3 ~ Tudor's
                  Henry Ford said
                  "It's all nuts and bolts"


                  Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                  Comment


                  • tbirdtbird
                    tbirdtbird commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Tom Endy has stated he routinely uses 2 of those shims each side on every rear end he does, and that is quite a few. I have used them on customer cars when needed, but our 2 cars don't need them. The drums can drag and bind without them.
                    Careful not to overtorque the axle nut, you can strip the threads and then you will have a bad bad day. Other marques were using 3/4" threads back there, not 5/8. 3/4 would have been way better. We use 90 ft-lbs here, and I don't like to go higher. Recheck after 500-1000 miles and if still at 90, no need to check again. You will get a weird sounding vibration from back there if they loosen
                    Last edited by tbirdtbird; 12-25-2017, 08:43 PM.

                • #15
                  What is the secret to putting in those shims? I really had to play with it to get it to stay in place during assemble. Does it go on male side or female side during assembly?

                  Comment


                  • #16
                    Curly, you can use a piece of Scotch tape if you really have trouble. It shouldn't take that much to hold it while you slide the drum on.
                    You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

                    Comment


                    • #17
                      Put the shim on the axle first then slide on the drum..
                      3 ~ Tudor's
                      Henry Ford said
                      "It's all nuts and bolts"


                      Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                      Comment


                      • #18
                        all steel,from the pedal to the wheel

                        Comment


                        • DaWizard
                          DaWizard commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I know that string from somewhere, but can't remember where, probably for the best.

                        • CM2
                          CM2 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          it was a Ford chant,in defense of the indefensible


                          http://i68.tinypic.com/2isw8ap.jpg

                      • #19
                        I would normally put the shim on the axle taper, as Mitch said, but with your shim it looks like it would be a very loose fit, so it might be better to install it in the hub.
                        Either way you do it you want a snug fit so it doesn't shift while installing the hub.

                        Comment


                        • BNCHIEF
                          BNCHIEF commented
                          Editing a comment
                          When you have a loose shim just hold it in your hand and compress it so it stays tight on the axle also make sure you put put the hub on straight and square. I have magnetized them and or super glued them on, on model t fords not A's.

                      • #20
                        Originally posted by Curly View Post

                        Bad timing Ray. Comments like that are better suited for another Model A forum.
                        Aw, take it easy. Just poking a little fun at ya. Sorry you took it personally.
                        Last edited by Ray Horton; 12-26-2017, 01:25 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #21
                          Originally posted by Ray Horton View Post

                          Aw, take it easy. Just poking a little fun at ya. Sorry you took it personally.
                          I was up to my elbows in a dumb mistake. Not a big deal.

                          Comment


                          • Ray Horton
                            Ray Horton commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Ha! Man, we've all been there! ALL of us!

                        • #22
                          Curly, I have some new shims if you need any, but I won’t be back in town until school starts.
                          Alaskan A's
                          Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska
                          Model A Ford Club of America
                          Model A Restorers Club
                          Antique Automobile Club of America
                          Mullins Owners Club

                          Comment


                          • Mitch
                            Mitch commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Whats your garage door code?

                          • CarlG
                            CarlG commented
                            Editing a comment
                            You might think that's funny, but in a real pinch, I can get that accomplished by remote control.

                          • Curly
                            Curly commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Thanks Carl. These worked out after all. I appreciate all your help.

                          • Dennis
                            Dennis commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Carl must have an app on his phone.

                          • CarlG
                            CarlG commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Not quite that sophisticated -- yet.. My wife can start her car from literally anywhere from her phone, but we haven't got quite that far with the house yet. Takes a little more than that to break into my garage.
                            Last edited by CarlG; 12-26-2017, 06:46 PM.

                          • Dennis
                            Dennis commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Chamberlain makes a opener that will work on wifi and you can open and close with your cell phone. You can also check the status from far away if your door is closed. And I think you can check past activity.

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