Engine Block Sleeves

[dmdeaton]

If you need to sleeve a block, are the new sleeves modern steel? How do these wear and hold up compared to the stock cast iron bores?

[Grover]

Sleeves are cast iron so don't worry about it.

[tbirdtbird]

X2

be sure the machinist leaves a step at the bottom of the bore so that the sleeve can't slide further down into the hole....they don't all make this effort

[CM2]

I'm re ringing a sleeved block right now.Notice the step tbird is talking about.The sleeves are harder than the stock bore at least according to my hone.On teardown the bores looked good still had light crosshatch,but this was a low hour engine. Murphys law of engines got me on this one.."If you find a engine you dont know the history of and tear it down to check it it will be fine.If you dont tear it down to check it it will throw a rod"...I ended up tearing down a cherry..oh well,I know its good now,for the price of rings,shims and gaskets..

[BNCHIEF]

Peace of mind it would have drove you crazy not knowing.

[CM2]

Peace of mind it would have drove you crazy not knowing.

Its got a few interesting bits in it..parkerized B cam,McEachern timing gear,vented valve cover.The fella that built it has passed,and the guy who I bought it from didn't know the history of the build. One thing that has me stumped,the block side main bearings were drilled into the saddle it makes sense to insure even babbit flow and 'pinning' the babbit,but I wonder was this a common practice,Ive seen otthers without it..

[BNCHIEF]

I know nothing at all about this myself.

[George Miller]

Is that a crack that goes through the main bearing bolt hole?

[Greynomad]

I worked for a while with a guy who does all his main bearings that way and doesn't peen them. The holes provide a key to stop the babbit moving in the block. He's been doing it for about 40 years now.

[CM2]

No George that's not a crack thank god...thanks Grey,figured it was to pin the babbit.Who did you work for? If you don't mind saying...

[George Miller]

good that would have been bad.

[CM2]

yeah,thank god its a deep scratch..reckon the block would be junk if it was...

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Jaguar used a thin, BRIVADIUM Steel Liner, harder than the Hinges of Hell! Chiseled off parts of a galled, melted PISTON, zapped it with a hone & it was PERFECT. They NEVER wear & leave a RIDGE, even! Had one with over 200 K miles & still had HONE marks! AND, that's NO
XKE Dad

[MikeK]

Jaguar used a thin, BRIVADIUM Steel Liner, harder than the Hinges of Hell! Chiseled off parts of a galled, melted PISTON, zapped it with a hone & it was PERFECT. They NEVER wear & leave a RIDGE, even! Had one with over 200 K miles & still had HONE marks! AND, that's NO
XKE Dad

Just my guess here, but I believe those liners were actually gamma phase (austenitic) cast iron, similar to the well known Ni-hard and Ni-resist cast irons. How and why they came to be referred to as steel was likely a marketing ploy. If they were truly 'steel' they would contain no flake or spheroidal graphite and would be prone to gall up as a cylinder liner against aluminum alloy pistons.

If you have one of those 'Brivadium' liners around you will find it to be non-magnetic due to the unique austenitic iron crystal structure. They should go several hundred thousand miles without wear. Disadvantage: getting rings to seat completely may take 1000+ miles, as you would likely also use chrome rings against it to get the extreme service life. Many wet diesel liners are of similar alloy.

You could never sell liners like that to the Model A crowd. Through an aftermarket chain of manufacturing and distribution they would probably be $250 each, plus installation.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

YES, Mike, seating in was a BIG problem!!! We used Grant Rings, plugged the rod squirt holes, that squirted oil on the walls, JUST below the piston shirt.
There's NO rings that will scrape down THAT MUCH Oil!
That combination worked QUITE WELL!
Only ever replaced 1 sleeve, it cracked, over a wall water passage. Jags were NOTORIOUS for seizing a piston, when overheated. "Sometimes" it would slip the sleeve DOWN, a small amount, but was still useable.
Smokey Bill W.

[DaWizard]

Brent, we all know that a sleeve is suppose to be installed short of coming out the bottom of the existing hole. If it were me and my motor I would be asking you to tack weld the sleeve into the block to insure it doesn't come out of the block, which we both know, if left untacked it will do.

One thing I would ask is, is there a lip at the top of the sleeve that keeps it from sliding down further? If so, then all should be well.

[Mitch]

I would not attempt any kind of tack for fear of distorting the metal. Tacking will change those properties.
Leave the call to the customer, either resleeve it or go with it this way. Hopefully the reputable guy did it right, you would think. This is not your call to make, all we can do is advise the customer of the situation.

[Mitch]

I would call the rebuilder on the customers behalf. I'm sure a nice conversation can be had about any concerns or procedures

[George Miller]

I agree I would not weld either. Lots of sleeves were put in that way. If done right it will be ok.

[George Miller]

Im not a fan of sleeves, I do not get the sleeving back to standard, unless you can bore no more. If it was me I would leave it as is. You did not build the engine and if it was done by some one with a good name it should be ok.

[tbirdtbird]

"If done right it will be ok. "

well it would be hard to know if it were done right.

I am aware that some machinists have a way to pin the sleeve to the block, But I do not know how this is done. If that could be determined, it would be a worthwhile thing to do.

It seems hard to believe that a motor would have to be re-sleeved.....possible but to me very unlikely.
It might work the way it is, but I personally would not be happy. If this were the first time for a sleeve, then shame

[CM2]

Grey iron welds are dicey,they tend to fail at the point of penetration.Not worried about distortion or weld integrity on the sleeve,its the grey iron. Too much risk.A pinning solution would better IMO, press the sleeves in position and pin a lock bar to the block at the sleeve area,use the bar to capture the sleeve..I wouldn't fly alone on this one,the customer would be in every step of the way.

There is not a great amount vertical force on the sleeves..one option is to insure adequate piston clearance in the bore and spot on correct ring gap.along with rod alignment..given all those conditions are met you've done the best to eliminate sleeve tension,it might hold as is..

[Tom Wesenberg]

Is there any chance the top of the sleeve might have a lip to lock it from moving down?
I'd also leave it and hope for the best.
I'd have thought the first thing to do on an engine rebuild is to add a counterweighted crankshaft, especially by a "reputable" engine shop.
Also the heads of the 2 center main bolts should be turned 45 degrees to match the front 2 bolts. It won't matter as long as they were able to install the cotter pins.

[George Miller]

I seen the two bolts also. But the rod is centered well in the piston. over all looks good.
I also would not leave the sleeve hang down below the cylinder. But it will not hurt anything.

Maybe the guy did not want to pay the extra money for counter weights.

[CM2]

Diesel wet and dry sleeve applications use the land cut in the deck to hold the sleeve,its 'clamped' by the head. Wet sleeves use seals to segregate the oil and coolant,the sleeve has enough integrity not to need support from the block.

liner pullers are used for removal,and complete piston, ring, rod,pin and liner come as 'liner kits' no machinist needed.