E28 Headlight installation

[EarlyBert]

I picked up a set of E28 headlights to replace the sealed beam conversion lights that my car came with. (Hideous things. Look like dune buggy lights.)

Problem I found is the position of the socked on the headlight bar will not allow aiming the lights down. When I rotate them forward in the socket to aim slightly down & snug the nut, they are still pointing up slightly. What am I missing? Is there another adjustment that I am not seeing or a shim? Headlight bar issue?

The lenses are about 10 degrees back of straight up & down.

[DaWizard]

Two things come to mind. First, the headlight bar installed backwards, the cup for the light should lean forward. Second, bent headlight bar.

[EarlyBert]

That's what I was thinking so I turned it around & no change. So I'm still thinking my bar is bad. I don't have anything to compare it to.

[DaWizard]

Oh, if you turned it around and there was no change, the bar is wrong. There should be about a 10º slant angle forward of the cup.

[EarlyBert]

I wonder what would make more sense. Try to buy one that's correct & take my chances or have mine altered at a metal shop?

[Mitch]

Assuming it is off, you're going to need to know exactly how it should be shaped. Otherwise your eyeballs may not look right and not sit uniform

[DaWizard]

Actually, it shouldn't be too hard to just adjust the one you have, unless it is a hollow one. I would use something like a 15" crescent wrench and clamp it onto the cup and just tweek it forward. It don't take that much.

[EarlyBert]

Thanks for the ideas. Probably should have 2 wrenches to pull them uniformly. 10 or more degrees should be fine as long as they are similar. I will watch for more input since it will be a few days before I can get back to it.

[tbirdtbird]

how far away is the bar from the rad at the center

[EarlyBert]

1" from front center of rad core to th bar. 1/2" from rad shroud to bar.

[Mitch]

Watch you don't screw your fenders when torquing on it

[EarlyBert]

Ya, that would suck. Probably best to go to my machine shop.

[DaWizard]

Just to be a bit clearer, when you clamp the crescent wrench on the cup, go from the top flat to the lower hole flat that way you don't tweek the cup. If the jaws of the wrench are on flats it will keep the cup relative. It would be simple to slip the jaw of the wrench into the cup and use the arch of the wrench inside the cup to make the adjustment, but don't.

[EarlyBert]

I understand that. Makes sense. I think the machine shop option will be safer.

[DaWizard]

Might be a better plan, since I don't know if you have a forged or rolled bar, I would probably do a cold bend on it either way. If you have the rolled one I don't know how I would handle that. Because it is a split unwelded bar, shit can go very sideways very easily.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Need pictures of the cups and the whole bar. I've never heard of one being that bent.
Also, if you bend on the cups, it might help to cut the head off a large carriage bolt and put in the cup to help it keep it's shape while bending.

[EarlyBert]

Hmm, Good suggestion.

[EarlyBert]

I pulled the bar & decided to go see my local Model A sensei. See what he thinks about it also.

[Dennis]

Are you sure you don't have a 30-31 bar? The sockets aren't angled as far forward as on a 28-29 light bar.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Drives you NUTS, when the "EYES" of your car don't look right!!! On Minerva, my '30, the vertical lines in the lens' weren't straight up & down, even though the square lens bump was in the shell clip properly. I "thought" maybe there was a right & a left lens??? or a right & left headlight bucket???--NO DICE!! SO, I modified the bucket clip & rotated the lens a little, then, she didn't look like a DRUNKEN COUPE' at 2 in the MORNING!
Dad Opthamologist

[MikeK]

Before you go wild bending the bar check to make sure your 'new' headlamp mount bolts move to their full fore/aft (beam up/down) travel limits within the headlamp shell pivot sockets. You should be able to move the bolt fore/aft by hand when it is not mounted on the bar. If the old conversion lamps pivoted down properly in their 28/29 shells then so should your 'new' lamps.

Inside the shells are riveted-in-place plates that retain the top of the special headlamp pivot bolts. I've come across many headlamps where this plate pressed so tightly against the top of the bolt that it could not travel back and forth in the shell socket slot. You can remove the rivets, disassemble, correct, and clean the rust from the bolt and it's socket to free up the travel.

Vendors have replacement rivet-bolts when you put it back together. They look like original rivets from the outside but have a hex nut on the inside.

[EarlyBert]

Good info. I will explore this also.

[Steve Plucker]

Probably one of the better repro parts made!

Pluck

[Bob C]

Here are a couple of pictures that may help.

Bob

[EarlyBert]

Your example shows a very obvious cup rotation forward. My cup reference is nearly level.

[Dennis]

I still think you have a 30-31 bar. The headlamp buckets for 30-31 shape were rounded which required more of a level cup. Do your buckets have a shape like what Bob C posted? You might look for a 28-29 with the correct headlights and bar in your area to get an idea of how your bar should look. If you need a bar, call a dealer that has used parts like Bert's and ask.

[EarlyBert]

I definitely have the flat 28-29 bar & the headlights are the early 28 acorn buckets.

[Dennis]

In that case it sounds like your bar is bent that bad. If you look at the second photo that Bob posted your headlight should fit very close to the way it looks in the photo.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I recognize Bob's second picture as the one I posted of my 1928, and I thank Bob for saving me the trouble to retake the picture. Now, if I can find a good way to remove the surface rust off the headlamps, they sure would look better.

The 1928-9 bar is flat from lamp to lamp, but the 1930-1 bar is curved the whole way across.
Without going to the garage to measure, the 1/2" mentioned from the shell to the bar sounds about right.

[Bob C]

You posted that picture on FB when somebody was having the same problem as EarlyBert.

[Dennis]

Tom my bar clearance from the radiator shell is a little more than 1/2", closer to an inch. He should be good with a half inch. There are a lot of bars on ebay right now that show examples of how they differ with the arch.

[EarlyBert]

Ok, so I went to visit my Model Aguru with my problem headlight bar. He said he had seen this once before. Apparently this was an after market bar for an other type of headlight. Fortunately he had the correct bar & holy smokes, what a difference. I'm not sure 10 degreees would best describe the difference. The new bar will be refinished in short order & I will have the correct headlights soon. I hope to be able to post before & after pics soon.

[DaWizard]

GREAT news Bert, can't wait to see the pics.

[Mitch]

And he even had another bar for you. Wooohoo

[EarlyBert]

Yes he did. And I am anxious to provide before & after pictures of the makeover.

[Dennis]

After market bar... we learn something new everyday.