Engine installation

[pAAt]

Yesterday I cleaned out Fred's new forever housing and moved him in. Can't wait till he can get around on his own power. He will get a temporary engine today, if I can get motivated enough. I have a question on installation- Do I get the tranny set where it will be mounted with engine in or have it tilted up higher to ease the slide in ? This will be my first banger install, but not my last. Any help here before I get off my butt would be appreciated. Thanks, Pat

[Mitch]

You want the two components to be at the same angle when they are being mated together so most likely the trans will have to be nosed up some as the motor is going in . Using some long cut off bolts as guides screwed into the flywheel housing will help aide you in lining things up. You can also cut a slot in them for easier removal if you wish. Make sure you put a thin film of lube / grease on the trans input shaft splines, don't go nuts tho

remember it's all nuts and bolts:

[Beauford]

I have tons of experience with this! LOL I put a floor jack under trans to adjust as necessary. You have to tilt the engine back to mate it with the trans, It takes some adjustment with engine lift and floor jack. If I can do it multiple times, I have faith in ya!

[Mitch]

and your probably in for more yikes!!

[pAAt]

Thanks Mitch and Beauford. Beauford, I know Mitch is busy today, but maybe you could swing by and give me a hand !!

[Beauford]

Pat, how many lunches I got to pack for that drive!

[pAAt]

With pretty socks like yours, I better buy you some slippers and send you a gas card !

[Beauford]

Hey, thats how I roll. PPE at its finest.

[Beauford]

Don't mess my weekend up Mitch! LOL

[Big hammer]

Wow a wide out frame, you should have no problems installing!
Or you could remove trans, install on motor, install motor trans as a unit ?
More than one way to skin a cat ;-)

[pAAt]

Big hammer, you live even closer than Beauford. I could get by with a 50 dollar gas card, instead of 200 for Beauford, by hiring you to install ! I will install a temporary engine without tranny attached this time and when I install original motor, I will do it as a complete unit. That way I'll have experience both ways. Wish me luck, that's all I got going for me !!

[DaWizard]

I find it MUCH easier to install the tranny on the motor first, then install as a set and with the body off, that driveshaft spline is going to be the easiest to fit.

[Beauford]

Wiz is correct...I have done it both ways...with the trans it is easier. Just dropping motor in you really got to tweak. Took maybe a hour or so. Make sure you don't have oil in it like me....looked like a rear main x2 when I tilted her back. LOL I'm learning the hard way....

[BNCHIEF]

In my tudor i assembled the tranny to the motor and used one of those tools that allow you to tilt the motor take the shift cover off covet it with tape or cardboard floor jack at rear to help position angles goes in easy that motor an and front cross member are a tight fit. you can also put jack stands at back of car under frame remove the spring shackles and roll the rear end forward to mate up. Depending on the situation and vehicle which method is best depends at the time this is kind of one of those what kind of oil do you use questions.

[DaWizard]

Oh, one other thing, while you have the motor and trans apart, be sure to check the clutch pressure plate fingers for depth. If you don't do this and one is higher than the rest you will EAT that throw-out bearing quickly! You never know how long you will have that "temporary" motor in that frame, and since you have the cab off, it should be a really easy install.

[plyfor]

with the orig. mounts, try to spread the frame with spreader which makes alignment much easier.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I've only had to use the frame spreader one time, and I don't remember where the motor mount rubber pads came from.
I do know Snyder's has the correct thickness rubber pads, and the last two sets I used from them were a perfect fit, and no spreader was needed.
A bit of grease on the metal mount helps it slide into place easier.

[pAAt]

Got it in fairly quickly with help from friends, hoist, guide bolts, and some luck. I will do it with the tranny installed next time, now that I know my welding held on my puller device. Thanks for all the info guys !! Pat

[Mitch]

is that a stump puller your using for the frame spreader?

[pAAt]

Handy man jack, Mitch !! Just needed a slight tad of separation.

[Mitch]

Home made tools :

[Tom Wesenberg]

Is that clutch disc one of those where the springs can fall out?
I don't see any metal wrap up the side of them.

[Mitch]

good point Tom
it looks like that style

[pAAt]

Do I need to pull it back out or run it till he stops ?

[Beauford]

Just use bailing wire. It will be ok...

[DaWizard]

Personally, I would pull it and use that clutch disk as a frizbee.

Nice bit of homemade tools there Pat. One minor problem you might have with that motor sling is, if you install a motor & tranny together while the cab is on, you won't have enough tilt to clear things. I think if you use one eyelet in the #3 plug hole it will give you the right tilt.

[Guest]

Here is what I use. They are made out of a couple of broken C4 or C16C spark plug bases.
The eyes are forged steel USA eyes I got in a surplus store.
As I recall, the nut is a 3/8 NC, which I then welded on the end so it cannot come off.

The eye swivels 360 degrees.

I use a short piece of stout chain with a slip hook on each end.

I usually use #2 and #4 plug holes.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Is this just a temporary engine until you install the numbers matching engine?

If so, then you might get lucky and not have a disc spring pop out while you use it.

Did you dial in the flywheel cover?

[pAAt]

Tom, yes it is temporary engine. I think I will pull it again anyway, because the back motor mounts need to be trimmed on the top to get bolts to fit. I believe the flywheel cover was dialed in, because the engine came from a reputable Model A gentle man.

What disc should I purchase ?

Tom, would you come down and dial here in for me when I have it out ?

[tbirdtbird]

Looks like a bumper jack for a spreader! Whatever works.
The group is correct, the disc is made improperly and they have saturated the market. The springs lack the 'cage' to hold them in and they WILL popout when you are least ready for it.
There may be other vendors, but for sure you can get the correct one from Steve at Bert's in CO. They are open Tues thru Sat.
https://modelastore.com/
Steve is known for high-quality parts and has boatloads of original parts. At this point I am only buying from him, honestly
You would have thought the vendors would have figured this out by now.......

[Rowdy]

I agreee with tbird. Been doing 95% of my business with Berts for nearly 30 years. Always does things right and best quality across the board. Slightly more expensive, but very few regrets as compared to other vendors. Rod

[Tom Wesenberg]

Tom, yes it is temporary engine. I think I will pull it again anyway, because the back motor mounts need to be trimmed on the top to get bolts to fit. I believe the flywheel cover was dialed in, because the engine came from a reputable Model A gentle man.

What disc should I purchase ?

Tom, would you come down and dial here in for me when I have it out ?

Yes, I can do that.
Hopefully it will be a day too crappy to work outside at home, so I don't loose one of the few good days we have to work outside in Minnesota.

[tbirdtbird]

it would be worth checking about the dialing in of the FW housing.
It is often done improperly, with much gnashing of teeth later when there is clutch chatter or the tranny jumps out of gear. A youtube was posted recently which showed it being done with the engine in the horizontal position. Having the engine face down in a stand is the all-time best way to do this, to eliminate error

[pAAt]

tbird, your welcome to come help get this thing dialed in !! Thus eliminating any error and having a bit of fun to boot.

[tbirdtbird]

Too bad MN isn't closer to TX!
maybe you can have it moved

[pAAt]

Mowed a third of the yard and pulled the motor and tranny combo. One of those good days !!

[DaWizard]

Well done Pat. That pressure plate and flywheel will clean up nicely with a bit of emery to just brake the glazing. That clutch plate is a goner anyway with all the burning that one side has seen. Not long for this world so good thing you pulled it back out.

Wish I was closer I'd be there in a heartbeat to help ya out. I'm retired

[pAAt]

I'm retired also, so it's just putzing all day long.

[Beauford]

I mowed a acre, weeded and painted.....

[pAAt]

Looks like it was a good day for you too, Beauford !! I think you bring me luck.

[Beauford]

Glad your engine worked out! I hope I don't have to go through that for a while but does feel good when complete!

[Guest]

Pat,
Find a disc like this. The catalog repros are junk. Get an NORS US made one off ebay. The India repros are guaranteed to burn you.

[Guest]

Here are two types of engine adaptors for working on blocks. The first one is for mounting on a regular engine stand. It mounts to the water inlet holes, and is also pin located to a couple of oil pan holes.

The second one is similar, but is designed to be mounted to a sturdy workbench on a stub.

[pAAt]

Vince, thanks for the pics. I'll try to make a nicer adapter before Tom comes down. Possible buy one somewhere before the parts come in. Bratton's has a good looking clutch disc. SKU 11400 Thanks for your time on this !!