Snap-On Offset Head Nut Wrench

[29er]

What's the difference between the S-8663-A wrench and the S-8663-B?

Thanks!
Mike in Orygun

[Mike V. Florida]

Nothing. The S-8663 was made 1950 - 53 the S-8663-A was made from 1955 - 65 and the S-8663-B were made in 1967.

[CarlG]

If anyone would like to buy one of these Snap-On offset head wrenches, send me a PM

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

FORTUNATELY, my OLD wrench I used on Volvo B-18 & B-20s for years, FITS PERFECTLY!
GREAT old engines, except they had Timing Gear problems, similar to Model As. MOST failures were on LONG, HOT runs!
Volvo Dad

[Dennis]

Now that IS interesting. And those were the conditions when my cam gear failed, but it had cooled down to around 90 that night around midnight. I was going home from Sparks, NV from the MAFCA convention.

[29er]

Thanks! Still re-torquing after replacing the head gasket. I've been removing the dissy each time, which works and is ok, but it'd be nice not to have to.

[Dennis]

I bought one from Carl a long time ago. Tossed the one from Snyder's or Bratton's in one of the parts boxes to be forgotten.

[Denis4x4]

I use a crows foot with a 6” extension and a torque wrench. Never saw the need for the wrench pictured.

[tbirdtbird]

image000000.jpg We used to use the crow's foot method, then we hit on this:
Take a spare socket, cut it down with a cutoff wheel, and weld it to a 3" extension, Voila! Perfect tool to torque all the head nuts, and even makes it easy to get at the 3 by the firewall.
Never remove another distributer

[pAAt]

Great engineering and an easy make. Thanks

[Mike V. Florida]

Just as a matter of precision, when using the crows foot or the created offset the torque at the nut is not the same as what is set on the wrench.

[Denis4x4]

I would think that the difference would be very slight. Then again, if you used either method on all of the head nuts it wouldn't make any difference. Curious as to how much the difference is.

[tbirdtbird]

Agree. The difference in torque from the wrench reading should be negligible. Use the crow's foot on all the nuts for an equal value on all 14 nuts

[Dennis]

I try to have an inventive mind until it comes to a snap-on wrench that I don't have...

[katy]

Just as a matter of precision, when using the crows foot or the created offset the torque at the nut is not the same as what is set on the wrench.

If the crows foot is at 90° to the torque wrench the torque on the nut will be correct.

[Mitch]

katy Welcome

[DaWizard]

Hey katy, WELCOME to the VFF!!!

[tbirdtbird]

very true

[Timothy Kelly]

I respectfully disagree with "katy's" conclusion. Mike V. Florida's comment is spot on.

With the Snap-On offset head nut wrench mentioned in the first post, the square drive of the torque wrench is directly in line with the head nut being torqued.

With a crows foot the square drive of the torque wrench is set off to the side of the head nut even though the crows foot is at 90 degrees to the torque wrench. Since the torque drive is not directly over the head nut, the crows foot in effect adds length to the torque wrench changing the torque value due to the added leverage.

[29er]

Update: First, Thanks to all who responded to my original question. I've since snagged one on Ebay. Works great! Sure, there are other ways to tighten head nuts, and it's not a tool a guy would use every day, but then again, ya just can't have too many tools, right? For anybody that's interested, there are a couple up for bids on Ebay. I'm not associated with either of these sellers:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...-8663&_sacat=0

[davew]

Thanks

[CarlG]

I always thought that owning a Model A is just an excuse to buy more tools.

[tbirdtbird]

I have not looked at this thread since it started.
In fact, what Katy said in post #10 is true.
There is only an added lever effect if the tool is used at 180° to the nut.

Having said all that, since we are only talking about 1/2" distance, the extra torque applied at 180° is essentially meaningless, and the error comes in at 2.29 ft-lbs for an intended torque value of
55 ft-lbs

[CarlG]

See post #3

I still have several of these wrenches. If you want to have one of your very own, send me a PM

[Mitch]

Will you autograph them?

[CarlG]

If that's what tightens your nuts, by all means.

[Grover]

This is my collection of "under the distributor head nut" torque tools. DSCN4542.JPG 1-Bonney 2617, 2-MAC S 8S, 3-Snapon S8663B, 4-KR Wilson 6050-N, 5-Proto 6435, 6-Snapon S8677
All work just fine.

[1931 Flamingo]

Geez guys, tight is tight. Set one with a torque wrench, then see how tight it is with a box wrench and then do it to the one by the dist. It ain't rocket science here. What did they do during the depression and after(shadetree mechanics)??
Paul in wet CT

[DennyC]

There has been some good information in this thread and I am tempted to just agree with Paul in post # 15 and let it go. It is simple and practical and common sense and is the way things were done back in the day. I have done similar things many times.

But, people who have not spent a lifetime cranking on wrenches may not be confident enough they can duplicate a torque by feel, and then there are those who just have to know the science and tech behind it in order to decide for themselves what is significant and what is negligible. I suppose I fall into this latter category. With that admission, I have to say I agree with several earlier posters from a practical standpoint, although technically they may not be 100% correct.

When using any extension that does not place the center of the stud directly under the center of the socket of the torque wrench, there will be a change in the actual vs. reading of the torque. If the crows foot or offset is in line with the wrench, the torque applied will be higher than what is indicated. The shorter the offset, the less significant the change.

If you place the offset 90 degrees to the wrench, there will still be a difference that can be calculated by figuring the length of the hypotenuse of a right triangle. But, since the one leg of that triangle is extremely short compared to the other one, the difference in length and therefore the difference in torque is truly negligible.

So, for those who really want to calculate the numbers of what difference an offset makes, I offer up the following link. And it even has the Ford name in the URL, so it must be right.

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/re...la_main_en.asp

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

Interesting site. Assuming it is correct (and if it says Ford .... ), I found that

An 18" torque wrench and a 1.8" straight crowfoot, you're off 10%

[old31]

"difference that can be calculated by figuring the length of the hypotenuse of a right triangle" Oh, ok, I will do that in my spare time. Yikes. Just to turn a nut.

So, actually the crawfoot at 90 like some of you said did not change anything.

Denny, thanks for the chart.

[tbirdtbird]

"So, actually the crawfoot at 90 like some of you said did not change anything."

Correct.

[Ted Duke]

I would wager $5.00 to a donut that not many NON-Ford authorized mechanics in Southern Maryland where I grew up, or the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia where I live now, worried much about what wrench to use to torque the head, and I'll wager another $5.00 that MOST heads were removed and replaced by NON-Ford authorized mechanics (because dealers overcharge) and when they finished they checked the level of the kerosene in the radiator if it was winter ... and many of them ran after repair until the dang DISTRIBUTOR quit, and they left it parked under the big oak they were working under, and then a baby oak grew up thorough the engine compartment because they left the hood open.

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

How about https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/h...e-tool-adapter
or
https://www.brattons.com/head-nut-torque-tool.html

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

In addition to under the distributor and back next to the firewall, these tools also help a lot when you have a head bolt through the water outlet with a temperature sensor stuck in the side! :-(

[Jeff/Illinois]

Walt DeCrane from Woodhull, Illinois, a former Model A restorer now deceased, took this matter in hand for my friend Bill's '28 Roadster pickup one day.

Bill had his motor rebuilt, Walt had done all but the machining/babbitt work another shop did that. One day soon after, the Rdstr. Pickup was 'weeping' ever so slightly out of the head gasket. Bill drove back over to Walt's and asked him about it. Walt calmly walked over to his tool box, grabbed a Crescent wrench, strolled over and 're-torqued' the head nuts and said 'There ya go'.

He must have had 'the touch' because that was 18 years ago and it's never leaked a drop since!!

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

So most agree, use the crows foot with the torque wrench at 90 degrees to the crows foot wrench for best accuracy?

Wonder why some models did not simply line up the ends of the crows foot wrenches vertically? Then there would no need for this discussion.