I have always used denatured alcohol mixed with water for anti-freeze, per the FSB. Why? Because if anti-freeze leaks into the crankcase, it will destroy babbit. At least that is what I was told early on by people who would know. But times and things change. My question, as always during this time of year, is there a modern anti-freeze that will not damage babbit if it gets into the oil, maybe some new stuff I haven't heard of?
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
My annual anti-freeze conundrum
Collapse
X
-
Ya know Ray, I have always found Fords advice pretty good, and I understand your wanting to know about new ideas, but the Service Bulletins are pretty clear about using alcohol. If I was in a climate that could freeze the water in my radiator, I'd use the sure fired way of the past and get my car drunk.You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!
- Top
- Bottom
-
Ray this really is a very easy decision
Go buy your favorite full strength or 50/50 pre mixed coolant and fill it to a height of the baffle plate so you'll know if it looses any. Now your engine is protected from rust, corrosion and freezing and if your fears come true you will notice the level drop in the tank. Now oil floats on coolant so if it was to leak down into your oil it would be at the bottom of the pan and not in the babitt. If you suspect this just crack the drain plug loose so a few drips come out which would quickly confirm its antifreeze. Sometimes we over think the simplest things, but going the alcohol route is not an option in my book. This is the 21st century with more proven modern methods of doing & protecting things3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
Henry Ford said,
"It's all nuts and bolts"
"Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."
Mitch's Auto Service ctr
- Top
- Bottom
- Likes 2
Comment
-
Originally posted by Mitch View PostRay this really is a very easy decision
Go buy your favorite full strength or 50/50 pre mixed coolant and fill it to a height of the baffle plate so you'll know if it looses any. Now your engine is protected from rust, corrosion and freezing and if your fears come true you will notice the level drop in the tank. Now oil floats on coolant so if it was to leak down into your oil it would be at the bottom of the pan and not in the babitt. If you suspect this just crack the drain plug loose so a few drips come out which would quickly confirm its antifreeze. Sometimes we over think the simplest things, but going the alcohol route is not an option in my book. This is the 21st century with more proven modern methods of doing & protecting things
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by Ray Horton View Post
Yeah, overthinking is one of my problems. Also adjusting my 50-year habits and assumptions. I have some 100% Prestone ethylene glycol I could use. Does the rust inhibitor work in it if it is diluted with water?And again, since I have been doing it the 1928 way for 50 years, I don't know what the proper ratio of 100% Prestone to water is, and the instructions on the bottle don't mention Model A's. A full 3 gallons seems excessive for an Oregon winter, where we seldom get below 20 degrees F. I could use a recommendation on the proper mix from those who use this modern stuff.3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
Henry Ford said,
"It's all nuts and bolts"
"Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."
Mitch's Auto Service ctr
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by Ray Horton View PostI have always used denatured alcohol mixed with water for anti-freeze, per the FSB. Why? Because if anti-freeze leaks into the crankcase, it will destroy babbit. At least that is what I was told early on by people who would know. But times and things change. My question, as always during this time of year, is there a modern anti-freeze that will not damage babbit if it gets into the oil, maybe some new stuff I haven't heard of?
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
Ray i use sierra mix 50/50 like mitch said I use distilled water my engine guy says the sierra does not foam like some others do it is a concentrate of you can get 50/50. There are many choices and opinions,one more thing you can do and I have done is to get a syringe with a long plastic tube it will reach to the bottom of the pan and you can draw a sample and see what you have or crack your drain plug as Mitch says oil will always float on water so condensation or anti-freeze will be on the bottom.
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
Ray, surprisingly, ethylene glycol was available in the Model A era. I refer you to page 585 of the service bulletins.
There are tables there for the ratios to use for both alcohol and glycol.
Alcohol is highly corrosive to the cast iron water jacket, thus contributing to rust formation, clogged radiators, overheating, etc. While the glycol antifreeze did not have the sophisticated corrosion inhibitors of today, at least back then the rust formation was waaay less than with alcohol.
I suspect not that many owners used the glycol as I am sure it was more expensive, but it was available.
The 50-50 mix suggested above is standard in the industry. If you never see below 20, you could go lighter. You could use 60% water and 40% glycol. If you go lighter than that, say 70-30, you will not have enough corrosion inhibitor. We seldom see below 20 here either, and 60-40 is what I use.
In truth, antifreeze can potentially harm even modern bearing shells in modern cars. Be sure your cooling system is tight, and your head properly torqued and re-torqued several times. Then for the reasons Mitch and others mentioned above, the antifreeze-in-the-oil issue becomes moot
40% ethylene glycol freezes at about -13°F, giving you plenty of margin
http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedL...romPage=GetDoc
Please note to never run 100% ethylene glycolLast edited by tbirdtbird; 10-21-2017, 11:24 AM.
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
I'm going to try the Sierra mix like BNCHIEF this time. They had some stashed in the back of their store they ordered in the past for somebody else and O'Reilly warehouse sends them cases, not by the gallon. I think it was $22.95 a gallon, expensive but I'm not taking it with me and my kids will survive just fine.
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
I bought it dennis for 19.00 at napa here in kansas however at that price it should be a concentrate not 50/50 mix it half distilled water and half concentrate it will differentiate the difference if you confused I can take a couple of pics of the jusg difference for you. It is also safe around pets.
- Top
- Bottom
-
Well I poured mine in today, and when I started I thought this stuff sure is thick looking. Looked on the front and realized it was full strength. So I think the price was pretty good after all considering the price of distilled water.
- Top
- Bottom
-
I had used Peak for many years no problems, then it seemed to be hard to find so I have been using Green Prestone the last few years. 50/50 mix don't run it straight.
Our '36 Ford PU and the '30 Ford Roadster have Prestone in them and they are fine. Roadster has had it for almost 7 years now and it still rates to -30 below. Last summer I drained the pickup, the coolant was fine no rusty look or anything and it was almost 10 years old. Still tested to -30 degrees if I recall. I could have just put it back in but went ahead and refilled with new 50/50 mix. I like the anti-rust properties in modern anti-freeze over what the old alcohol based stuff was.
AND use only distilled mineral free water as H.L. pointed out that is importantLast edited by Jeff/Illinois; 10-22-2017, 07:06 PM. Reason: Forgot an important part of the equation
- Top
- Bottom
- Likes 1
Comment
-
We successfully used 50/50 Prestone with either mineral free rain water or mineral free distilled water in Model A radiators & vintage tractor radiators for over 60 years with no problems.
Everyone in our area was raised on drinking rain water & cooking with rain water since the early 1700's ..... our radiators never got clogged with minerals and we never had kidney stones.
Ten (10) miles north of here everyone had clear well water, drank mineral loaded well water & used mineral loaded well water in their radiators whereby they later developed mineral clogged radiators and kidney stones.
If you ever see a good, used original Model A radiator for sale ...... maybe best to ask the guy if he ever had kidney stones.
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
-
I always use the 50/50 premix. If I ever need to add any (which is rare), it's more 50/50 premix.Alaskan A's
Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska
Model A Ford Club of America
Model A Restorers Club
Antique Automobile Club of America
Mullins Owners Club
- Top
- Bottom
Comment
Related Topics
Collapse
-
by GuestGreetings,
I have heard a great many conflicting opinions on the use of antifreeze in the Model A. What is all 'yall's opinion on what kind of antifreeze to use for cold weather driving?-
Channel: Model A Forum
01-22-2019, 10:05 PM -
-
by Bud_DI have been running distilled water in my A for a while. I used to run water plus Prestone rust inhibitor. My concern is what to do with the water plus rust inhibitor when I want to change the coolant. Where do you take this stuff? I don't want to just dump it on the ground. Lately what I have done is take the water out of the A, filter it to get rid of scale and grease, then keep it for next...
-
Channel: Model A Forum
05-25-2022, 05:22 PM -
-
by kschlawinI know this is probably a very basic question, but I'm volunteering at a local museum trying to keep a '20 T alive. It's very low on coolant and will be stored in a non-heated area each winter, so we need to get antifreeze/coolant in there soon. We're in Iowa. I've searched online for type and brand, but nothing clearly jumps out at me. One source said "bright green, conventional" antifreeze....
-
Channel: Model T Forum
10-30-2020, 09:52 PM -
-
by Grit KidDoes anti-freeze really help a Ford Flathead Four run cooler in the Summer? I found from reading posts, seems this is as controversial as which oil?
-
Channel: Cooling ~ Engine
05-12-2017, 08:51 AM -
-
My A green antifreeze is at least 3 years old, am thinking about changing it. Instead of changing it it, it still looks clean/fresh, researched on the internet on if there is a an additive refresh. Spent an hour - nothing. Perhaps not searching using the right terms.
Is there a product for this and what is its name?
Wade-
Channel: Model A Forum
06-17-2021, 11:58 AM -
-
by BNCHIEFMitch I looked at your link for thermocare my engine had been rebuilt and tanked but i am sue it is not like new if one uses the thermocare i assume you drain the anti-freeze add this product and distilled water and drive the car .
How long and then you drain and flush it out and put back in the 50/50 antifreeze mix.
What about water wetter
What can you add that will keep rust ...-
Channel: Model A Forum
08-21-2017, 07:25 AM -
-
by WestsailGood morning, everyone. While looking around under my new Model A (to see what type of grease fittings are there), I noticed that there were some rust colored splashes behind the outlet of the coolant overflow tube. This led me to open the cap and find ... rusty water (see attached picture). The engine runs pretty cool (water temp gauge with sensor in the upper coolant pipe) in the 100 miles driven...You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 1 photos.-
Channel: Model A Forum
12-12-2021, 01:21 PM -
-
by copgibI know this question has been asked many times but when I do a research of the topic I just get more confused. What are most using 50/50 Serria Antifreeze and distilled water?
-
Channel: Model A Forum
06-15-2018, 09:45 PM -
-
by EricToday I'm switching over to Evans waterless coolant. The process begins with draining the existing water/coolant and filling the system up with the Evans Prep, which is Ethylene Glycol to purge any remaining water from the system. That got me to wondering....regular store bought coolant, full strength, has Ethylene Glycol in it.. Does anyone have any idea what percentage might be in regular, uncut...
-
Channel: Model A Forum
06-05-2021, 05:29 PM -
Unconfigured Ad Widget
Collapse
Comment