Fuel Shutoff Replacement

[Birdhunter555]

Hi All,

Go figure another question from me

I noticed the smell of gas in the garage and noticed the carb was leaking. When looking at it, it looked as if fuel was all over it and not leaking in one particular place. The fuel shutoff is in the horizontal off position. I emptied the sediment bowl and checked in about 4 hours and the bowl was half full again.

Wondering if I should replace the valve? New gaskets between carb? Could anyone tell me the easiest way to drain tank if valve replacement is required?

Thanks all for help. I just want to make sure I go about fixing things the right way from all you knowledgeable folk before taking a stab at it.
-Kyle

[DaWizard]

Kyle, the way I drain the gas is to remove the tube between the valve and firewall, turn it end for end and reattach it to the valve and put the open end into a gas can sitting on the floor and hope the can will hold all that is in the tank. Then, remove pipe then valve, if there is no pencil filter there will be a small dribble, if there is a pencil filter there will be about a cup of gas, so use something that will hold at least two cups when removing the valve.

Be sure to install a pencil filter with the valve.

If you are going to rebuild the valve, pull it apart and clean any burrs left that will cause it to leak using as fine of grit paper as you can get. After you have deburred it, use toothpaste to lap the two parts back together.

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

Lots of info here if you search. You have 2 issues, a leaky shutoff valve, and a carb issue.

Wiz's is good info, my methods.

To Test the shutoff - - best to shut off the valve, drain carb float bowl to get gas out the supply lines and bowl. Put the bowl drain plug back in. Let sit over night. Then check the float bowl.

To catch drippage under the carb I cut a plastic gallon milk jug in half and place it under the carb. Usually place a napkin in it so if drippage is very minor the napkin stains before gas evaporates, as a indicator. Plus if I drop anything getting the carb off, prevents having to get down under the car to retrieve things dropped.

1st fix the shutoff valve issue. Dependent on model they can might be fixed by disassembly and lapping internally. I prefer to just do a replacement, quicker and less fuss.
I have good luck with the Brattons replacement. They are guaranteed for 3 years, American made. Be aware that it is not uncommon they may need replacement every few years.

https://www.brattons.com/fuel-shut-off-valve-under-the-gas-tank.html

Some will add this in line with the existing shutoff, these never leak, but are not original parts, so some do not like how they look.

https://www.mikes-afordable.com/product/A9230AV.html

https://www.mikes-afordable.com/product/A9230BV.html

Once the shuoff is fixed I go after the carb. Test by leaving gas on overnight. Then use a pinky finger and feel around inside the air horn/intake. If gas is there most likely you have a leaky carb float valve. I prefer the Viton tipped float valve, and use ethanol free gas. Others here may prefer a different style float valve. There are other causes for leaky carbs. The float valve is most common.


Some put up with a leaky carb. They simply fix the shutoff valve. And then shut off the shutoff valve with the motor running and run the motor till it dies, which runs the supply lines dry and most of the carb bowl empty

[Jm29henry]

I remove the gas line where it goes in to the carburetor and I place a rubber line and sleeve it over the metal gas line fitting and gas line .
I then run the rubber line to the front or side of the car slip the hose into a empty 5 gallon gas can then I turn on the shuttle off and let the gas fill the can until the tank is empty be sure to monitor so that you do not over fill the gas can.

Then you are ready to remove the shut off valve. Remember to have a catch can of some sort there may be a small amount of residual gas in the tank. Also as posted in the above post it is my opinion that a pencil filter is a must. Newer shut off valve don’t seem to last for me I have had to replace mine at least three time in the last 14 years of ownership of my car .
Gentlemen this is what I do and has seemed to work well for me BUT I am no mechanic. So please read all post before you start there may be some better and easier ideas. Joe.

[Mitch]

I remove the gas line where it goes in to the carburetor and I place a rubber line and sleeve it over the metal gas line fitting and gas line .
I then run the rubber line to the front or side of the car slip the hose into a empty 5 gallon gas can then I turn on the shuttle off and let the gas fill the can until the tank is empty be sure to monitor so that you do not over fill the gas can.

Then you are ready to remove the shut off valve. Remember to have a catch can of some sort there may be a small amount of residual gas in the tank. Also as posted in the above post it is my opinion that a pencil filter is a must. Newer shut off valve don’t seem to last for me I have had to replace mine at least three time in the last 14 years of ownership of my car .
Gentlemen this is what I do and has seemed to work well for me BUT I am no mechanic. So please read all post before you start there may be some better and easier ideas. Joe.

I do it the same way at the carb. A 1/4 piece of fuel hose is all you need. I would also install the viton float valve, stand up as mentioned. If you have the glass sediment bowl you may wan to consider adding a filter inside. What carb are you running?

See this tech thread

https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...tering-options

I once had the same issue, the wife was going to toss me out of the house from the fuel smell. Changed the shutoff but it still seeped until I did the float valve. Go figure, you would think the shutoff would have stopped it. Sometimes it is a combo of both

[CarlR82A]

easiest way to drain tank

The best way to drain the gas tank is a nice long drive!

[Dave in MD]

I might add to the above advise that I run the gas into a funnel with a paper coffee filter inside to see what is in the tank. Plus you can pour the drained gas back into the tank when done with the valve install. Any material trapped in the coffee filter can be checked for rust with a magnet.
Good luck,
Dave

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

While inspecting the filters, use a flashlight behind the float bowl screen, and closely inspect the carb screen. A club member was having issues like running lean, especially at higher speeds, like it was starving for gas. Finally tracked it down to his float bowl screen was partially plugged up with gas/varnish residue. It was not apparent until we used a flashlight. We simply removed the screen for the remainder of the drive, when he got home used brake clean on it and all was good. He also found a little build up on the carb screen, and used brake clean on it.

[gdaquilina]

I rebuilt my original several times but it would not stop leaking. The reproduction ones never lasted more than five or so years so I gave up and installed a shut-off between the sediment bowl and carb. As above- highly recommend the pencil filter and filter in the sediment bowl.


Model A aux shut off valve.PNG

[Birdhunter555]

Thanks all for responses! Great information. I will get these parts ordered from Brattons and follow instructions on getting everything replaced. Will be nice to get all the little issues fixed before spring. Still snow on the ground so good to tinker now (when I can find the time).

Mitch- The carb is a Zenith. And yes my wife is tired of informing me I “reek of gas” as soon as I walk in the house from the shop!

-Kyle

[H. L. Chauvin]

For over (20) years we heard where Model A owners had to sell their Model As because wives were fed up with smelling gasoline in their garages.

And, for those who remember the late Mr. Ron Cloate, "Rainmaker Ron"; he had a story to tell those who asked him about what he called "The B.S. Story on how to restore Model A shut off valves."

He told me he attended many swap meets over many years and had collected over (100) "original" and "re-pop" Model A shut off valves. On several weekends he tried devoting all of his time trying to restore all (100) shut off valves. First was "fine" valve grinding compound, followed by baking soda, toothpaste, and what ever. After the metal was shining like new and carefully observed and inspected with his 10X magnifying glasses, he connected each restored shut off valve to his air compressor and submerged each shut off valve under water to try to observe leaking air bubbles,

Out of (100) he fully restored and tested "with compressed air", he said only (2) did not leak; and even though he still sold many new Model A shut off valves each year, he always tried to advise his customers to install a ball type valve like that in reply no. 9 in the engine compartment.

He also added what we all heard that the Model A has no fuel pump like our non-smelling modern cars; hence, because our gas tanks are sitting up high, with "constant" fluid pressure caused by gravity, our shut-off valves, fuel lines, and carburetor float valves remain under this constant fuel pressure.

Gasoline in any form can be dangerous. Appears it is always best to provide what works best for each Model A owner; with or without a wife who can smell gasoline in our garages.

[MickyDC]

All I did was start my model a, naturally with the garage door open, and when I came in to the house the first thing my wife said to me was, "you smell like gas". Duh. I changed clothes and retired to my computer for the day.

[Mitch]

All I did was start my model a, naturally with the garage door open, and when I came in to the house the first thing my wife said to me was, "you smell like gas". Duh. I changed clothes and retired to my computer for the day.

I smell like gas everyday when returning home. It pays the bills and raised the kids, so she won't say a thing

[Blown Gasket]

I just got my shut off valve from Mike's today, waiting on my float valve. But it has just dawned on me that if you have a good shutoff valve and a good float valve what happens when you pull into a garage that is somewhat warm from the cold outside. You park and shut the valve and the fuel line and gas in it expand as they warm up. I can see the shutoff valve taking the increase in pressure but not the float valve. Could this be the reason some of us think the float valve is leaking?

[Kurt in NJ]

Take the floor boards out, then any leaks/ spills hit the ground instead of floor mat filling inside of car with gas smell

[Greynomad]

I install a ball valve like gdaquilina shows in his post (#9) but I put it in the same location as the original valve. I can operate it from the driver's seat just like the original. On one car, the handle turn in the horizontal plane, in another, I shortened it and put it in the vertical plane. It makes no difference really but there have been NO leaks since.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Many have experienced that it doesn't take much typical, Model A gasoline leakage to have one's garage smelling very slightly like gasoline, especially for those of us who have wives who never smoked in their lives, and who have never ruined their olfactory senses for smell like many men have.

Even after installing a Model A in-tank pencil type fuel filter, possible fine loosened particles of hard ferrous rust from a Model A gas tank can scratch the softer, tightly rubbing non-ferrous surfaces of a "NEW" Model A shut off valve and could cause minor leaks. Nobody thus far appeared to ever offer even a five (5) year No-Leak-Warranty on Model A shut off valves tolerating constant gravity fed fuel pressure from our Model A fuel tanks.

Placing a ball valve "after" the in-tank screen pencil filter; and "also after" a "NAPA" or "WIX" paper fuel filter, (provided in one's glass sediment bowl), can help to extend the lives of non-ferrous shut off ball type valves.

This added paper fuel filter can also assist to avoid "tiny" in-tank debris from slightly getting lodged in one's carburetor's float valve whether this valve be made of metal or of a soft synthetic material.

Also, sometimes small amounts of excess carburetor bowl gasoline evaporates out into the garage from the carburetor inlet prior to dripping liquid gasoline on one's garage floor. We all learn often in Life, that every possible solution, could have a problem.

[Jeff Boyles]

I didn't realize my wife had so many identical twins across the continent. I started shutting my GAV each time after "running the car out of gas" when I put it up for the night. That helped. Then I installed my new radioactive Champion 3X plugs. That basically eliminated my gas smell. I had her go and stand in the garage and breath. She admitted it was much better.

[CarlR82A]

I smell like gas everyday when returning home. It pays the bills and raised the kids, so she won't say a thing

For the first five or six years of marriage (now 56 years) my wife thought my normal odor was carburetor cleaner.

[H. L. Chauvin]

I have a Bartender cousin whose daughter was getting married quite some time ago, where one of his bar patrons had a recently restored Model A who offered to take him, his daughter and his wife to both the Wedding Chapel and later to the Wedding Reception.

He and his wife told me recently that after their family arrived at the Chapel, (about (5) miles away), they were totally exhausted, and all out of breath after holding their breaths while trying to avoid interior strong smelling Model A gasoline fumes and heavy gray exhaust fumes creeping into this Model A; however, after inside the Chapel, he said even though he and his family still smelled gasoline, they remained very calm, could finally breathe, and were not at all afraid or worried.

Later after arriving at the Wedding Reception, not only did they again arrive all out of breath; but, they became horrified after entering and observing a few "cigarette smoking guests", thinking they might either catch on fire or explode, after that most gaseous and smoky second Model A ride!

[Hank B]

You park and shut the valve and the fuel line and gas in it expand as they warm up.

I've never had a main gas valve leak, but often times a float would stick, or perhaps as you suggested, the gas may have expanded.
I came up with my solution.
While the garage door is going up, I turn off the gas valve in the car. Sit for 15 seconds and then drive in.
By the time I get parked, the carb is running out of fuel.
My garage never smells.

[Blown Gasket]

I replaced the gas valve yesterday, no pencil filter. However a strange object came out with the filter, a thin washer about the dia. of the filter and with a 3/32" hole in it. I'll have to get a filter and may be able to put it in from above using long surgical tongs and a flex scope. I tried the run the engine out of gas and the car back fired in the garage and almost gave my wife a heart attack.

[kawagumby]

I changed the main shutoff valve just two days ago. I used a Moroso ball valve at the same location.

[Mitch]

I replaced the gas valve yesterday, no pencil filter. However a strange object came out with the filter, a thin washer about the dia. of the filter and with a 3/32" hole in it. I'll have to get a filter and may be able to put it in from above using long surgical tongs and a flex scope. I tried the run the engine out of gas and the car back fired in the garage and almost gave my wife a heart attack.

Any particular reason why you passed on the pencil filter?

[Blown Gasket]

Any particular reason why you passed on the pencil filter?

Oh no, I want one in there, I just don't have one right now, need to order one.