I'm going to set the timing as per Tom's post . It has got to the stage my car won't run sweet unless the advance /retard is in the last 3 clicks all the way retarded.(down) I'm thinking the timing needs reseting? I checked the working of the lever and it is working correctly as in all the way up just on one side of the slot all the way down just on the other side. Am I on the right track or is it more likely to be something else,timing gear or something?
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A couple of questions on spark timing.
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Def make sure your timing is set to specs first.. going down with the lever is advanced up is retarded.3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
Henry Ford said,
"It's all nuts and bolts"
"Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."
Mitch's Auto Service ctr
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Originally posted by Mitch View PostDef make sure your timing is set to specs first.. going down with the lever is advanced up is retarded.
Since your timing seems to be quite retarded, I'm thinking someone must have been confused about the direction of the rotor, or at what time the spark happens during the points opening and closing.
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It runs fine but over the last couple of months it gradually has needed the lever to be further down(advanced not retarded as Mitch pointed out) to run fine.The lever hasn't been past half way up for a month . I replaced the manifold gasket yesterday and had trouble starting it and it won't start if the lever is more than 3 or 4 clicks up from the bottom and runs sweet 0 to 1 click up. But this has gradually been happening and not thinking it's anything to do with the gasket replacement. I will do it exactly as per Tom's instructions in the tech section and Model a basics and check cap gap and set the points first and go from there. Thanks, John.
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starting with the basics as you suggested is the first step. yes point gap first (Big hammer) and ck for no side play movement in the dist shaft which will screw up your points adjustment.. usually when the timing gears have jumped the compression will show low when doing a compression test...
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as the points rubbing block changes, the timing changes.
so, as above, check the points gap first. be sure you lube the dizzy cam with a very thin coat of hi-temp grease to slow down the wear rate eg
With a correct gap of .020, and the timing then properly set, all you ever need to do again is re-check the gap every 500 miles or so
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Car is LHD. The points are stuffed. The rubbing block is worn so much that the points won't close when set to 20 thou.They were at about 10. They have acctually been rubbing on the left hand rivet that holds the block if you look closely. I feel like an idiot not checking the simple things much earlier and thinking of something more complex. Everything else in the dist feels and looks good.You do not have permission to view this gallery.
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Originally posted by Manager View PostCar is LHD. The points are stuffed. The rubbing block is worn so much that the points won't close when set to 20 thou.They were at about 10. They have actually been rubbing on the left-hand rivet that holds the block if you look closely. I feel like an idiot not checking the simple things much earlier and thinking of something more complex. Everything else in the dist feels and looks good.
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a decreased gap will retard the timing, which is why you had to compensate by moving the lever further down.
Meaning, as the rubbing block wears, the timing will slowly retard, and engine performance will suffer.
Those innocent looking little points are the heart and soul of the ignition system. (a genius LC system, brainchild of Kettering)
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Originally posted by Manager View PostCar is LHD. The points are stuffed. The rubbing block is worn so much that the points won't close when set to 20 thou.They were at about 10. They have acctually been rubbing on the left hand rivet that holds the block if you look closely. I feel like an idiot not checking the simple things much earlier and thinking of something more complex. Everything else in the dist feels and looks good.
Yep, that can happen.
Either the rubbing block is defective/soft, or, most likely as has been mentioned, there was a lack of lube applied.
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Chief,my Dad, taught me to set the timing, by EAR!
IF you have these sounds, it's perfect!
1 Spark UP, a SMOOTH rhythmical sound, like, TADA-TADA-TADA-TADA.
2 Spark HALFWAY DOWN, a FASTER, smooth idle.
3 Spark FULLY DOWN, an even FASTER but somewhat "rolling" idle.
IF you have these sounds, it's PERFECT! Some MINOR corrections may be needed to obtain these sounds.
The supplied cam turning tool helps you make MINOR corrections, using your BIG fingers makes it hard!
SOME NOTES: ALWAYS adjust your idle mixture with a SLOW idle & spark UP, until you get the SMOOTHEST, RYTHMICAL sound. IF your GAV affects your idle, YOU'RE IDLING TOO FAST!
IF you're getting abnormal/uneven rubbing block wear, OFTEN, the brass pivot post for the point arm is LOOSE & WOBBLY. BOTH of mine were LOOSE! They can be tightened by removing the upper plate & re-stake them with a BLUNT center punch & a TAP-TAP-TAP!
IF proper sounds gradually change, just properly re-gap the points & you'll be "OFF & RUNNING"
Model As DONT "JUMP" timing, unless the cam screw is LOOSE!
The Dog helped me REMEMBER all this CRAP.
Bill W. & Buster T.Last edited by BILL WILLIAMSON; 06-03-2017, 09:11 AM.
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Repeated, new confusing Forum questions on "PRECISE" Model A spark timing is no doubt here to stay forever.
After reading and studying all methods and all recommendations thus far written or heard for the past 50 years on how to time Model A's, this most simple "FINAL-TMIING-CHECK" check below .......... ( written (3) years ago on Model A FB on 6/26/2014 12:31 p.m. ) ........... is performed "WITH" the spark handle retarded and all the way up, and "WITHOUT" the use of a timing tool or timing light, without studying rotor/distributor position, without remembering CCW rotation of rotor, and also, proper and correct precise Model A timing can be verified with a loose distributor shaft, loose distributor body, a loose rotor, and a loose anything.
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Hi Joe 31,
FWIW; Simple Quick Timing Check ....... "After Initial timing".
First, sorry to hear the new distributor parts did not fit -- this can be most frustrating for all of us.
1. But just assume one is out on the highway & he did not bring his timing light to test his timing; & he has back & forth play, (CW & CCW), in the distributor shaft & he wants to "double-check" his or someone else's initial timing.
2. After initial timing according to whoever's advice whether verbal or written, with or without lots of shaft play, a simple "accurate" subsequent timing test can easily be performed.
3. It is best to remove 4 plugs so engine hand cranks easily, & rotate engine until timing pin slips in. At this point with no plugs, the fan can be used to slightly rotate engine back & forth. ("I'll get murdered on this advice, but I'm not bothered.")
4. With distributor fully assembled, switch "ON", connect removed plug no. 1, lay it on its side for a good ground, & position same such that one can see the gap.
5. Rotate engine back & forth very slightly with fan blade -- when timing pin hits bottom of timing gear recess, plug no. 1 should fire at this very moment -- try rotating it back & forth several times until you feel certain it is correct.
Hope this helps to avoid concern about backlash, misaligned points, loose rotor, screwed up distributor cap, or whatever else can & will go wrong, etc., etc. with anyone's initial timing.
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Just hope this can help anyone to actually "SEE" precise "SPARK TIMING" in action just in case any or all other methods are in doubt ..... maybe try keeping a copy in your Model A to check a future friend's precise timing.
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An EXPERIENCED mechanic can turn the engine a few degrees, using the fan, without DAMAGING it! SOME just don't ADMIT it.
I'm very EXPERIENCED, except at TIPIN' & SPELIN'---LOL
I LIKE being a JUNIOR MEMBER, makes me feel YOUNG!--LOL---Whin do I become a SENIOR MEMBER???
Bill Ignorant
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if you turn the motor by the fan blade just watch out that the belt does not loosen. Being the Model A only has a lower mounting bolt it can easily move.3~ Tudor's & 1~ Coupe
Henry Ford said,
"It's all nuts and bolts"
"Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible."
Mitch's Auto Service ctr
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Originally posted by Mitch View Postif you turn the motor by the fan blade just watch out that the belt does not loosen. Being the Model A only has a lower mounting bolt it can easily move.
ALSO, suppliers have a neato adjusting bracket that pushes against the SIDE of the DYNAMO!
Tight KDadLast edited by BILL WILLIAMSON; 06-04-2017, 09:22 PM.
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Spark Timing, Set It and Forget It,
There are at least a couple ways to set the timing. You first must set the point gap, and I always set mine to .020" with the points setting on the highest part of the cam lobe. This remains the same whether you use the "A" cam or "B" cam. After the points gap is set, you can then push the spark lever all the way up,...You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 2 photos.-
Channel: Tune-up ~ Performance
05-16-2017, 03:34 PM -
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by bosticjbSetting the time with a timing light what is the recommended degree of timing and should it be fully retarded or advanced...
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Channel: Model A Forum
08-12-2020, 08:20 PM -
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by 1929 35AI am turning to the forum for help with the ignition timing in my Burtz engine. I am running a 6.1:1 head which means that I must limit the amount of ignition advance. I have done that by screwing a bracket to the side of the A distributor with a stop screw in it like a throttle (idle) stop. That is set at 22° advance which is just about perfect when cruising. Around town, it is too much and it is...
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Channel: Model A Forum
12-07-2022, 01:29 AM -
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by Antique_IronOK- long story short (I hope). Prior to pulling the engine, the car started righted up and didn't overheat unless pulling a long hill on a hot day (80s). I pulled the engine and transmission to replace the clutch. While the engine was out, I adjusted the rods and mains, honed and ringed it and cleaned up the valves and seats.
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Channel: Model A Forum
04-22-2023, 12:31 PM -
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I used a NuRex timing wrench to set my timing. It is very easy to use. It consistently sets timing at 0 degrees TDC with the spark advance lever all the way to the top. I know some prefer the timing light to come on when the timing lever is pulled down one or two clicks which I understand retards the timing either 4 or 8 degrees. What is the advantage of that as compared to the 0 degree TDC setting?...You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 1 photos.-
Channel: Model A Forum
06-16-2022, 02:02 PM -
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I know that Ford made this about as simple as possible with the Model A, but I'm still pondering here after running the Roadster around town today.
I have to set the spark lever about 1/4th up towards retard or I get a knock if I put any kind of load on the engine. Other Model A's I've driven I could set the lever at full advance for general driving no problem.
Points set...-
Channel: Model A Forum
03-26-2019, 09:04 PM -
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by canadianWhy, if I adjust points , make gap smaller by .002 do I have to adjust ignition timing, or do I ?
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Channel: Model A Forum
04-08-2019, 09:32 AM -
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by SoapyNo, the distributor isn't whining, I am. I have been trying to find the dimple in the timing gear with no success. Even with the plugs out, cranking the old girl is tough. I hit the sweet spot once but it was just lucky and when I changed distributors it all went away. Finally, tonight, I pulled plug #1, put my thumb over the hole and cranked the starter until it blew my thumb off. Then I put the...
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Channel: Model A Forum
01-25-2020, 07:31 PM -
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by DaWizardI need to pick the brains of those here..
Let's say I had a B block with B timing cover with an A cam.
Would setting the timing with the pin in the B hole into an A cam timing gear make the timing ahead so far that after setting the timing advancing the spark handle make the engine too far advanced as to make the engine stutter and fall on it's face?-
Channel: Model A Forum
05-27-2018, 11:19 AM -
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by plyforWith a stock A engine and 6.0 head, #1 piston at TDC, points at .020, plugs at .030-.032 gap, where should the spark advance lever be to set the dizzy rotor ? Should it be all the way up, at or more than 2 notches down the quadrant after backlash removed, etc.?
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Channel: Model A Forum
10-22-2022, 10:54 AM -
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