Radiator Flush w/ Vinegar

[saxman657]

I've posted about this before, but am at a new stage before pulling the radiator so wanted to start with a fresh new post.

First background: I started the TLC of my father-in-law's Model A last year. First time out after changing out filters in bowl and filling up a dry gas tank I spewed a huge amount of rusty water. Got her home and shoved a hose down the radiator and flushed a lot of rust out and ran until water was clean. Then flushed with a Blue Devil product. Filled up with distilled water and added water wetter - no antifreeze since I'm in SoCal. Car ran great at speeds up to 53-55mph. A couple of months ago I drained the radiator and decided to add a 50/50 mix of old fashioned Prestone. Started to overheat at highway speeds after running for maybe 15-20 min. Hmmm. So I flushed with Thermocure, letting sit for about a week. Then flushed and back-flushed with garden hose. Still overheated. Added a Gano filter and ran for several weeks. Took her up into summer desert hills and started the overheating again. Got her home and pulled the filter to find a good amount of what looked like mineral deposits, but no rust! Cleaned it out and have noticed it is still overheating.

Next steps, and I'm looking for help here. I plan to drain and clean the Gano filter, and then run the white vinegar for a week. Should I use 2 gal to fill radiator and then top off with water if I needed? Also, I read where it is recommended to follow with a flush of baking soda and water to neutralize the effect of vinegar. How much baking soda do I use? A box in several gallons of water?

If all goes well, I plan to try Royal Purple Ice and bottled filtered drinking water. Has anyone used this product before. Royal Purple says I can use with antifreeze too, but I don't see the need considering the environment here in SoCal.

[DaWizard]

First question is, during all these flushing have you had the radiator OUT?

If not, remove it, lay it down face first on a flat surface and fill with vinegar and let set for a week. Then drain out the TOP flushing from the bottom. I bet you find more rocks and rust coming out since it sounds like the tubes are clogged. Rinse and repeat.

Every time you use the vinegar it eats a wee bit more off the chunks of rust and allows them to be flushed out the top. You must flush out the top since all the clogs have come from the top down, so flush from the bottom up. Just putting the hose in the bottom and flushing up won't work. No short cuts when it comes to cooling.

If you have had the radiator out and done this already, it is time for a new Berg's radiator. You won't regret the purchase.

Keep using the Gano filter no matter what.

[saxman657]

Thanks. I've looked into the Berg's if I need to go this way. Looks like a great radiator -- pricey, but you get what you pay for. No, I haven't pulled the radiator yet -- trying all options before I finally pull.

[Mitch]

X2, get the Bergs, install the gano and move on. Your engine will appreciate it as well

[saxman657]

X2 -- that's a model number for Bergs? Have you ever run into a problem with the cooling jackets in the engine? Hoping this isn't the issue.

[Mitch]

Well yes, but you need to pull the head for that. Either way you still need a rad.
See post #1 on this tech thread

https://www.vintagefordforum.com/forum/model-a/motor-cooling/7787-cooling-system-information#post7787

[saxman657]

Thanks Mitch. Well aware of lye from when my grandmother made soap 😆. That'll definitely be a last resort!

[copgib]

I have a question for you I see no one has asked yet. Does your car have a thermostat? That also could be part of your problem if it isn't working properly. I also recommend Berg's Radiator which I have one also. Good luck!

[Steve Plucker]

Berg's Radiators are great...Have one of there cores (round tube) in my 1929 Standard Coupe...it is now 41 years old.

Unfortuanatly Berg's do not make or sell the round tube cores anymore???

Pluck

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

As an FYI, Antifreeze actually does not cool as good as water, so when a car has a cooling system in marginal/poor shape what you experienced is very possible. A good treatment/flush treatment (sometimes takes more than one treatment) and a new radiator is your best bet. Speaking from experience you can spend a lot of time flushing/treatments/etc, and end up additionally having to replace the radiator. Without looking at the recommended thread/link above, suspect most of the info you will ever need is in that thread

[Ray Horton]

Three years ago I finally gave up on home remedies and commercial products and just bought a new Brassworks radiator from Bert’s for my ‘29 54A. Perfect fit, beautiful work, looks right, and no more overheating due to radiator issues. $700 then, maybe more now, but worth it for peace of mind. Oh, and sold my old radiator for $200, and let somebody else fuss with it. (It was an original and cosmetically near perfect. The guy was ecstatic ro get it.)

[Bill G]

Three years ago I finally gave up on home remedies and commercial products and just bought a new Brassworks radiator from Bert’s for my ‘29 54A. Perfect fit, beautiful work, looks right, and no more overheating due to radiator issues. $700 then, maybe more now, but worth it for peace of mind. Oh, and sold my old radiator for $200, and let somebody else fuss with it. (It was an original and cosmetically near perfect. The guy was ecstatic ro get it.)

Ray Horton By golly, I have a Brassworks from Bert's too. 80 degrees today, went up the back roads of cabbage Hill out of Pendleton and temp gauge showed no more than 180 the whole way. Coming downhill a lot less. Point being that the hills are steep and long. No issues.

[saxman657]

I have a question for you I see no one has asked yet. Does your car have a thermostat? That also could be part of your problem if it isn't working properly. I also recommend Berg's Radiator which I have one also. Good luck!

I tried a thermostat and per direction from others, had drilled several holes in it. Still overheated.

[Terry, NJ]

If I may be so presumptuous to add a little to this thread, Don't use vinegar! I did, and for only a few hours and it ate a hole in my tube. Use some version of an Iron remover. There seem to be several under the names , Iron Out, Iron Ike, Iron Mike, etc. All are a basic sodium Bisulfite mixture that doesn't affect copper. Most hardware stores carry it. If you have a well in an area where there is a lot of Iron and you have Iron stains in your fixtures, this will help clear them out also. Try to use only distilled water in your cooling system. Tap water can be a veritable witches brew of chemicals and acids, that when it gets hot, becomes much more reactive. For really cheap distilled water, get a dehumidifier. Vinegar is acidic enough to make your own plating solution for nickel plating.
Terry

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

If I may be so presumptuous to add a little to this thread, Don't use vinegar! I did, and for only a few hours and it ate a hole in my tube. Use some version of an Iron remover. There seem to be several under the names , Iron Out, Iron Ike, Iron Mike, etc. All are a basic sodium Bisulfite mixture that doesn't affect copper. Most hardware stores carry it. If you have a well in an area where there is a lot of Iron and you have Iron stains in your fixtures, this will help clear them out also. Try to use only distilled water in your cooling system. Tap water can be a veritable witches brew of chemicals and acids, that when it gets hot, becomes much more reactive. For really cheap distilled water, get a dehumidifier. Vinegar is acidic enough to make your own plating solution for nickel plating.
Terry

Hi Terry, 1st I've heard of this. I believe you, just not sure what to make of it.

I used Walmart white vinegar 3 times (leaving it in each time for 2-3 days) in a row when having overheating problems, with a final water/baking soda treatment. Did not have any problems like yours. I now run anti freeze since I live in a cooler Wisc climate.

Wonder why the different results.

Wade

[Terry, NJ]

OK, where I lived in So. Jersey, the water is very acidic. I have seen times when the hot water lines (Copper. L wall thickness) have been eaten out through normal use. But not the cold. This water was at 115 deg. The same tap water in a car radiator will run at 180 deg. The higher the temperature, the more reactive. The copper in the radiator tubes, being the thinnest, is the first to go. Perhaps, In another area, with a less acidic water, where the water forms limescale in the pipes. The radiator tubes lose less copper or none at all. In So Jersey, We got no limescale, only iron and acid damage. A long time ago, My father was saving the water from our dehumidifier and using it in the radiators and batteries. I used Vinegar (5% citric acid) and it ate a hole in my tubes. The poster will have to decide whether or not it will help or harm his equipment. But he should not automatically assume that any acid will help the situation.
Terry

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

OK, where I lived in So. Jersey, the water is very acidic. I have seen times when the hot water lines (Copper. L wall thickness) have been eaten out through normal use. But not the cold. This water was at 115 deg. The same tap water in a car radiator will run at 180 deg. The higher the temperature, the more reactive. The copper in the radiator tubes, being the thinnest, is the first to go. Perhaps, In another area, with a less acidic water, where the water forms limescale in the pipes. The radiator tubes lose less copper or none at all. In So Jersey, We got no limescale, only iron and acid damage. A long time ago, My father was saving the water from our dehumidifier and using it in the radiators and batteries. I used Vinegar (5% citric acid) and it ate a hole in my tubes. The poster will have to decide whether or not it will help or harm his equipment. But he should not automatically assume that any acid will help the situation.
Terry

Thanks for the additional info Terry, those sound like valid reasons for your warning. If previous owners did not use distilled water or the existing radiator is weak sounds like it could happen. Learned a new tidbit bit of info, happens a lot from info here on the VFF. Nothing like hearing the experiences of others.

[RonC]

At 55mph you could be emptying out your water without an overdrive. Does this car overheat before it’s even driven or at low speeds. An original engine cooling system was not designed with a filter. The filter will change that design by restricting the flow and raising the operating temperature. Try running without the filter. Have you checked your timing??

[BAAP]

a trick i used was to put lestoil cleaner in my radiator and run around for an hour or so. Come back and drain the system, rinse it out and repeat until the fluid comes out pretty clean. Once this was all done i looked inside and saw a nice shiny brass radiator. Oh yea as i drove around the system foamed up like a rabid dog but no damage to the bright work or paint.

[Mitch]

a trick i used was to put lestoil cleaner in my radiator and run around for an hour or so. Come back and drain the system, rinse it out and repeat until the fluid comes out pretty clean. Once this was all done i looked inside and saw a nice shiny brass radiator. Oh yea as i drove around the system foamed up like a rabid dog but no damage to the bright work or paint.

Dang Jeff... All you had to do was go pull a new radiator off the shelf.

[BAAP]

Dang Jeff... All you had to do was go pull a new radiator off the shelf.

Well there's more to the story on this. It was a radiator that was only 2 years old. I was on SkyLine Dr on tour (lots of big long hills to go up and down) and i boiled the water out of the system. Being the smart fellow that i am i noticed a nice drainage ditch along the road. So i pulled my sock off to use as a filter and filled up the radiator. Needless to say a sock really isn't a good filter to stop stuff from clogging the system up. So this one was chalked up to a learning experience, and well let's just say i now keep plenty of water in the car for just in case.

[Larry Jenkins]

OT, but a very interesting thing about vinegar..

One gallon of distilled white vinegar with a teaspoon of dish washing soap make a great weed killer. Used some yesterday on a gaggle of small weeds, and today, gone! (Apologies to Mitch..)

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

OT, but a very interesting thing about vinegar..

One gallon of distilled white vinegar with a teaspoon of dish washing soap make a great weed killer. Used some yesterday on a gaggle of small weeds, and today, gone! (Apologies to Mitch..)

No harm to grass?

[Mitch]

No harm to grass?

My exact question

[Larry Jenkins]

Don't know for sure. I guess it's proper to not spray the vinegar on grass. There are many Vinegar/Dish washing soap recipes on the Net. I have a pump-up sprayer with a very direct spray pattern.