Chicken or the egg?

[Larry Jenkins]

While perusing some images of old cars in the Model A era, I see there are many that look like our 30-31 Model As. Question:

What are your thoughts about whether or not all some of the old cars from this period were copies of the Model A, OR, was the Model A a copy on another old car of that same period?

I seem to recall that Edsel Ford also did the design work on the 30/31s. But?

[pooch]

The A was 5 years obsolete before it was on sale in 1927.

I believe the only reason it has survived in numbers is because it is pretty, the stylists were the best, a 28/4 29/6 chev is ugly as they come.

And because the ford was nearly all steel re doors and pillars and structure where the other 2 of the big 3 were wood framed.

And ford used the best steel.

This is why you see 30 to 1 and more fords vs chevs and plymouths surviving .

The plymouth of 1928 was eons ahead of the A in1928 in design .

It had 4 wheel internal expanding hydraulic brakes, a pressure fed engine, rubber engine mounts, slim line radiator shell with flowing lines backwards, in which it took the A in 1930 to flow the styling to catch up .

[Tony Hillyard]

It is without doubt that all manufacturers copied each other. It seemed that the company that could get the right mix of design, build quality and price won. Also in the day international communications were very poor, so that what was old hat in one country was the latest cutting edge in another. Germany invented the first cars, then France was the first country to start serious production of motorcars. Later, in the US Budd bodywork company was way ahead of the times. For example Andre Citroen went over to the states and copied Fords production methods and Budd's bodywork construction methods.

So they, even today, they all copy each other.

[Greynomad]

The styling of the Model A was, IMO, no better or worse than the styling of just about every other car maker of the time. Just like today, styles came and went. It was just the style of the time. That said, I think some of the European cars of the time were very beautiful works (the same can be said of some of the more expensive American cars too). To make a car acceptable to the public, it had to be cheap and reliable. The economics of production influence the style so run of the mill cars tended to not be pace setters in design. Ford included.

[2manycars]

The styling of the Model A was, IMO, no better or worse than the styling of just about every other car maker of the time. Just like today, styles came and went. It was just the style of the time. That said, I think some of the European cars of the time were very beautiful works (the same can be said of some of the more expensive American cars too). To make a car acceptable to the public, it had to be cheap and reliable. The economics of production influence the style so run of the mill cars tended to not be pace setters in design. Ford included.

And the styles of all the cars of that period were just an evolution of the horse carraige.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Styling was all over the map during the period, just as it is today. Generally, most cars were very similar in a given year, but as noted some seemed to be a year or two behind but then catch up or even leap ahead. 1928 Packards I've been around were boxes. By 1931 it was a totally different story. 1933 was somewhat a transition year but in 1934 nearly all makes shared the same sloping lines. For me that was one of the best years for styling ever.

Here is a 1929 model that spent quite a bit of time with me around 1979-1980.

duesy.jpg

[Jeff/Illinois]

I saw a car yesterday and I thought 'wow' the new Fords sure have a nice looking blue ,,, wait it was a Subaru they had even copied the Ford trapezoid grille looked like a Ford Escape until you got close.

Off hand the only car makers that come to mind in my lifetime that went over and beyond with their styling and broke away from tradition, were the early 70's AMC cars and man were they ever butt-ugly. Matador? And that Pacer, the green house looking thing? Blagh. It hurt your eyes to see one coming at you down the road. Probably helped bury that company sales weren't too great.

Most new cars today are boring, all you see are minivans, trucks, and SUV's and they all look alike pretty much. That plus almost every vehicle you see are either black-white-gray-silver you don't see the colors we saw on cars in the 60's. Nothing really strikes out above and beyond,,,,, except the Mustangs, Camaros, and Hellcats those are cool because you know immediately when you see one just what it is.

Probably another reason Model A's are so much fun and we get lots of waves from people, they still look neat!

[Sunnybrook Farm]

I kind of feel sorry for all the people who spent full price on a 27 model T. A big difference when compared to any other similar price car. The A was a big advance when it came out and when put in perspective the styling was in line with other comparable cars. Edsel was in hopes of putting a six cylinder in the A but it sure would have been a different vehicle, I think I saw a Ford photo of a Six that they made to test with.

[Jeff/Illinois]

I've thought the same for buyers of the '27 Model T.

Model A was so far advanced, so much so that even in 1960 Popular Mechanics had an article that said it was the best value car for the money, made out of the finest materials, that was ever sold.

I bet that has never been topped even to this day. Model A had so many quality steels throughout the car, and advancements, that Henry probably could have sold the car for even a bit more money and it would still have sold in huge numbers. But he held the line on price. $500 in 1930 dollars is $7445 in today's money. A John Deere Gator X425 w/ cab and 4X4 alone today is about $23,000. That is $346,000 in Model A money, 1930.

Something to consider.

[A29tudor]

Of modern day car body designs, design may be based on air drag, weight and fuel economy. Look at the aircraft designed for commercial use today. Are they copies or very similar in design because or aerodynamic needs to reduce drag and fuel effencies, I think so. Did this have any effects on early designs, maybe not but I believe it has lots to do with today's designs looking more and more similar as time goes on.

[Greynomad]

Of modern day car body designs, design may be based on air drag, weight and fuel economy. Look at the aircraft designed for commercial use today. Are they copies or very similar in design because or aerodynamic needs to reduce drag and fuel effencies, I think so. Did this have any effects on early designs, maybe not but I believe it has lots to do with today's designs looking more and more similar as time goes on.

That's dead right. A wind tunnel in Japan, the US, Europe or anywhere else will give roughly the same shape. Once they are happy with the shape, they put their badge on it but they all look like a well worn cake of soap, IMO.

[CarlG]

I saw a car yesterday and I thought 'wow' the new Fords sure have a nice looking blue ,,, wait it was a Subaru they had even copied the Ford trapezoid grille looked like a Ford Escape until you got close.

...

They even have the blue oval badge!