Do radial tires improve the steering and ride of a model a

[BNCHIEF]

I was wondering about radial tires do they make a big difference on your car steer easier ride etc . I will use the orignal size wheels.

[H. L. Chauvin]

I just installed five (5) Coker 550-19 Radial Tires with Coker Radial Tubes on my 1930 Town Sedan with four (4) ounces of Snyder's tire beads in each tire; just like Mr. Carl G. and several others mentioned on **** **** some time back.

It is really not at all difficult to describe the great and wonderful difference in steering between new Coker 19" Radials & old 19" bias tires ...... but ...... it appears difficult to convince anyone to spend the additional money to try same.

Steering on back roads now feels like steering any new model 2017 car.

Here is my one (1) suggestion for anyone switching from old bias tires to New Model A Radial tires with New Radial tubes, with (4) ounces of tire beads in each tire:

Provide a special "timed" locking device on your Model A garage door that will unlock your garage door no more than (12) hours ..... once a week ...... because after you switch to New Radials, you will want to drive your Model A everywhere ............. every day !!!!!

Mr. John Lavoy commented implying a similar statement on **** **** some time back.

[BNCHIEF]

HL thanks for the response had not thought about the balancing beads I drive my cars my tires are old just wish they offered them in whitewalls, however that said I am interested in safety as well since i did randy gross brakes rebuilt the steering box I am not going to scrimp at this point if i only drove the car a little then who cares. I checked the tube they have gone up about 10 dollars summit shows tires tubes are confusing but i like the metal stems so i need to check this out further thank you I did read what you posted on the other forum, you have been a big help how do i ask about the tubes can summit do this for you they show free shipping on the tires.

[Patrick]

It appears everyone likes the radials and it seems to me that considering the life of the bias vs the radials would make the radials worth the extra expense. Thats my thought anyway and when I install new tires, they will be radials.

[BNCHIEF]

Thanks I have not seen anything negative.

[tbirdtbird]

we have a couple club members with a wider than stock tire, I think it is 5.75. I will check and modify the post. If radials came that same size it would be sweet....

wish I'd known of them last time I bought tires......

[H. L. Chauvin]

Even though Summit provides Coker tires with free shipping and Coker tubes with free shipping, Summit does not provide custom tubes with vulcanized metal stems .... custom vulcanized metal stems have to be provided by Coker, with their additional Coker standard shipping cost.

My Coker radial tires were ordered from Summit with free shipping. Tubes came from Coker with Coker shipping cost .... with all shipped on the same day from Coker .......... maybe (4) days after ordering.

If one looks carefully at where each individual radial tire meets the pavement, the 550-19 has more tread area, (width x length), gripping the pavement.

It is difficult to describe, but on back roads in a Model A Ford, this extra tire to pavement solid gripping with radial tires, as opposed to old non-flexing bias tires, feels something like riding a galloping horse traveling at (45 mph) and gripping the road while on all fours ..... as opposed to riding on a horse galloping on just his hind legs at (45 mph) ....... with both front legs and hooves up in the air ..... with or without a saddle ...... and with or without stirrups ...... in a strong wind.

Even though one can feel far more confident and comfortable driving a Model A with radial tires, my "Main" concern for "everyone" is "Life Safety".

Nothing like a former Model A owner having a big fancy, expensive granite Tombstone, all decorated with expensive flowers, with a casual subscript remark like:

"His Model A never would have veered off the cliff if he would have just paid a little more for Radial Tires."

[BNCHIEF]

Thanks tbird i am interested in any input.

[BNCHIEF]

Thanks again HL I kind of wondered about whether to go with the 500 or 550 how much difference that would be it looks like cost will be
Summit 550 R19 271.00 ea x 5 =1355
Coker -tubes 46.00 ea x 5 =230.00
plus 2-1/4" metal stems. What do you do about valve stem covers with these?

[Captndan]

I started out with a beautiful looking car. New correct paint, upholstery, etc. Then the touring engine. Then the Randy Gross steering. Then the Stipe shocks. Now radial tires??? When will this madness $$$ stop?

[Greynomad]

My biggest fear is that when I die, my wife sells my car stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

[Patrick]

I started out with a beautiful looking car. New correct paint, upholstery, etc. Then the touring engine. Then the Randy Gross steering. Then the Stipe shocks. Now radial tires??? When will this madness $$$ stop?

It only stops when you want it to. Which means usually never. My wife always says its only green paper.

[Mitch]

You have a good wife!! I know guys that have to hide their purchases

[CarlG]

RE: Mitch's comment
My wife is a quilter. She is the one that has to hide her purchases!

[CarlG]

I started out with a beautiful looking car. New correct paint, upholstery, etc. Then the touring engine. Then the Randy Gross steering. Then the Stipe shocks. Now radial tires??? When will this madness $$$ stop?

It doesn't!

[MikeK]

H. L., Thanks for the report on your 550 radials. I know they must sit a little different on the pavement than bias tires. Are you using 35 psi? If possible, could you measure from the pavement to the center of a hub cap? I'd like to know exactly how high things sit. I was never fond of 'peanut' 16" radials on an A.

Captndan- It never ends. I finally told my wife to stop putting boards across my short blocks in the living room and using them as a coffee table.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Mike & Captdan,,

A. Per question 19:

1. Coker recommends 44 psi. Somebody on **** **** said they were trying 38 psi. I just arbitrarily chose 40 psi. In my opinion, for a 1930 Town Sedan, 40 psi looks good and the ride feels comfortable with oiled re-conditioned ends of original springs and four (4) new Stipe shocks.

2. With nobody in this Town Sedan, all four (4) Coker 550 Radial tires, when inflated to 40 psi, when mounted and resting on a level concrete garage slab measure 14-3/8" from center of hub cap to concrete below ......... increased engine weight on front tires does not alter this dimension.

3. With nobody in this Town Sedan, all four (4) Coker 550 Radial tires, when inflated to 40 psi, when mounted and resting on a level concrete garage slab measure 30-5/8" outside diameter when measured from front to rear at center of hubcap ..... and the total width on these same inflated tires at mid-height from slab measure 5-9/16" on all four (4) tires.

4. After Coker vulcanizes their shorter metal stems in these heavy duty, heavy Radial tubes, they allow them to sit inflated for 24 hours to test if they leak prior to shipping same. After mounting, I inflated all five to 40 psi, drove around off and on for 30 days and checked them again .... they never lost one ounce of air in 30 days. These Coker tubes are much heavier and more sturdy than the 100% new rubber tubes with rubber stems I bought a couple years ago for about $16.00 per tube. We always get what we pay for.

5. If one watches the Youtube video of the guy easily installing his bias tires on his 19" rims while the rim is on the car ........ please quit dreaming ....... these Radial tires are heavier and much stiffer ....... but not impossible ...... my wife and I installed all five on newly powder coated original 19" rims with two old Model T front spring leaves wrapped in triple heavy duty duct tape. We never used suggested talcom powder or grease to allow the tire to slip on the tube when applying the brakes, but like in the past on old tractor tires years ago, we did use two "heavy duty" plastic garbage bags per wheel. Also helps tremendously to place a 1/4" rubber tube over the tube's metal stems, insert same in wheel stem hole, and clamp tire to wheel with something like Harbor Freight, 18", #62125, $4.99, ratchet clamp with rubber tips prior to working tire down on the rim. .

B. Per question no. 9, I never installed stem covers ..... "yet" ...... only valve caps.

C. These 550 tires, fully inflated, fit in an original 1930 Town Sedan tire well; however, the side mount spare tire carrier plate has to be slightly modified .... another topic ....... but every flat usually happens in the rain, so why get thoroughly soaked pumping up a spare tire with a hand pump when you can have a fully inflated spare tire.

I just hope this can help.

[BNCHIEF]

H.L. Thanks so much for all of your insight and help, people like you and Mitch and countless others have helped me get to know the model a ford I am going to get the tires etc as you have suggested and it will save me from making mistakes or getting the wrong parts one last question would you run flaps or just a rim liner or duct tape to protect the tube. Do they make a valve stem cover i am sure my originals will not work. Thanks again

[H. L. Chauvin]

1. Flaps: If after final wheel finish is provided, one has very rough, pitted rims with rough inner spoke ends, etc., I would use rubber flaps. I was lucky in that the gentleman who provided the (5) wheel RAL 1001 powder coating first primed wheels and applied several layers of powder coating thus filling in all of the rust pits on in-sides and out-sides of rims and spokes. (He only charged $80.00 per wheel). I just used the rubber rim liner to cover inner ends of spokes. Gentleman and I checked in-sides of powder coated rims for rough and or sharp edges ......no rough or sharp edges of powder coating were observed.

2. Ordering Coker 550-19 tires from Summit was not a problem. The Summit part no. is COK-741771 & description is EXCELSIOR STAHL SPORT RADIAL. Price was $271.00 each, $1,355.00 for (5), no tax, free shipping from Coker warehouse. Tires and tubes arrived together from Coker about (5) days later.

3. Ordering tubes with metal stems from Coker was different. Check your Coker emailed invoice immediately. First gentleman was trying to save me money and according to the email order invoice, he was sending me less expensive tubes with long rubber stems ...... second gentleman was again trying to save me money and emailed invoice indicated sending cheaper bias/radial tubes that came with metal stems already installed. After calling, third gentleman got it right ..... Coker Item no. for tubes, 500/600R19 TR150 CENTER RADIAL BR19, $46.00 each ........ valve stem installation Item no. IN - VALVE STEM INSTALLATION $5.00 each ..... valve stem Item no. 90991 RUBBER BASE NICKLE STEM TR127, $7.00 each. Per your question on will standard Model A metal stem caps fit ..... I did not ask who manufactures metal valve stems for Coker.

4. Snyder's beads in tubes ...... be prepared ...... one envelope inside the outer envelope was torn but I did not lose any beads. Next, slip 1/4" rubber hose over metal valve stem & slip small plastic funnel tip in other end of rubber tube. Three tubes filled easily and quick. Number four had vulcanized rubber blockage and took longer. No. five would not fill with vulcanized rubber on inside of metal stem. Tried a 9/64" drill bit, but it would not "cut" this rubbery vulcanized rubber. Went on line to find a K&S #98353.5mm x225mm, (three thin wall brass tubes), www.ksmetals.com, Chicago, IL, and from a hobby shop ordered tubes. Inserted brass tube in metal stem and beads bypassed the vulcanized rubber blockage.

5. Tires & tubes were not tested for balance but at 55 mph prior to installing; however, absolutely no bouncing with (4) ounces of tire beads installed per tube.

6. Snyder's tire bead manufacturer says his beads can increase gas mileage when used on large trucks ...... Caution ...... don't put more than the recommended 4 ounces of beads in your Model A tubes if your gas tank is full ..... you do not want your gas tank to over flow after driving 100 miles.

Hope this helps anyone contemplating installing Coker radial tires & tubes.

[tbirdtbird]

OK, i think this was covered already, but here goes, just heard back from my friend
"I am running B F Goodrich 5.50 X 19 Silvertown Cord bias ply tires on my vic. Can't go any larger than that because the front tires will rub on the brake rods in sharp turns.:

[Mitch]

H.L.
with all the previous discussions of cheap leaking porus tubes how do these tubes match up with the good ones made & supplied by brattons .berts etc... would it not be better to get those instead of the coker ones?
the tubes will still expand for the 5,.50 profile

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Mitch,

1. After experiencing installing both bias and radial type tubes, Coker radial tubes are no doubt of heavier construction than that of the tubes mentioned in reply 18 above.

2. Right after removing one's Model A bias tires with 35 pounds of air, and after installing Model A 550-19 radial tires with 40-44 pound of air, one can clearly see that the radials "appear" more under-inflated because the sides of the radials have flexed outwards considerably more, have more of a "low-tire-look", plus the tire to pavement contact area has increased. In motion at about 50 mph, one can imagine how much more the radial tires flex in "all" directions. For a laymen's engineered comparison, if one bends and flexes a coat hanger, a piece of steel, or rubber with 50 mph motion, one can experience that the heat generation is in proportion to more flex or less flex.

3. Supposedly, as far as increased "cost", radial tubes are manufactured with a stronger material composition that have more heat tolerance, can withstand more tire/tube flexing heat, and also radial tubes have a tougher more durable material to tolerate more frictional rubbing wear between the tubes and the more flexible radials.

4. Because modern radial tire flexing causes more steel rim flexing than bias tires, Coker tire engineers and experts knew that many vintage steel spoke rims were never designed for the increased radial tire flexing motion and increased steel stresses where wheel cracking sometimes occurred. With radial tires there is more steel rim opening pressure than with bias tires; hence, heavier special manufactured tubes, not bound by the rims like the tires, can assist in absorbing this flexing outward pressure.

5. Numerous website articles have been written by many professional tire manufacturers as to why radial tubes are required for radial tires; and numerous website articles have been written by many non-professional, none-tire-manufacturer, (so-called-know-it-all's), as to why radial tubes are "not" required for radial tires.

6. Farmer Pumpkin Seed for example, is one who reported putting bias tubes in his radial tractor tires 10 years ago ..... he travels at 10 mph max, and his soft plowed ground flexes more than his radial tires. One gentleman suggested installing three (3) types of tubes in modern radial tires and travel at 60 mph; e.g., one tube like a thin five cent toy balloon, a bias tire tube, and a radial tire tube ...... puncture each ...... the toy balloon exploded, the tire deflated instantly, and the driver lost his life; the bias tire tube guy only wrecked; but the stronger radial tube let the air out slowly more like a radial tubeless tire, so this guy installed his spare and kept going. Hmmmmmm!

7. After reading all of the reasons why not to buy more expensive radial tubes, we Model A Forum seniors appear to all have a common problem after being raised by Depression Era parents. We too bought Cokes and Hershey Bars for a nickle when young; our children buy Cokes and candy bars for $1.69 and never think twice. When I told my oldest son I just spent over $1,300.00 for Model A tires. His response, "So what?" In my opinion, we live but once, "Life Safety" is important at any age ..... we just need to kick the "Coke for a Nickle Habit", buy what is recommended by tire manufacturing experts, and get serious when driving in today's more dangerous traffic.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Per reply no. 17, if "any" Model A recommended 19" tire is touching an originally arranged front brake rod assembly, this is one possible suggestion.

1. Turn the steering wheel all the way to the "right" and measure the distance between the outer circumference of the passenger side tire and the passenger side brake rod.

2. Next, turn the steering wheel all the way to the "left" and measure the distance between the outer circumference of the driver's side tire and the driver's side brake rod.

3. After 86 years of tie rod toe-in adjustment, drag link adjustment, and/or maybe installing formerly non-adjusted new tie rods and new drag links, don't be surprised of one tire clears the brake rod by 1/8" and the other tire has 2-3/8" clearance .............. or one tire touches a front brake rod, and the other tire does not.

4. Unless different years/models of Model A's makes a difference, appears if rods are more equally adjusted, with an original front brake rod installation/renovation, with installed 550-19 radial tires, one should have clearance between both front tires and both brake rods.

5. Maybe a good "General Information Question" for several Model A Forum Members would be:

A. What is the distance between "your" front tire and brake rod on the passenger side?

B. And, on the driver's side?

[2manycars]

Hi Mitch,


7. After reading all of the reasons why not to buy more expensive radial tubes, we Model A Forum seniors appear to all have a common problem after being raised by Depression Era parents. We too bought Cokes and Hershey Bars for a nickle when young; our children buy Cokes and candy bars for $1.69 and never think twice. When I told my oldest son I just spent over $1,300.00 for Model A tires. His response, "So what?" In my opinion, we live but once, "Life Safety" is important at any age ..... we just need to kick the "Coke for a Nickle Habit", buy what is recommended by tire manufacturing experts, and get serious when driving in today's more dangerous traffic.

This is exactly what I have been saying for many years. I ran a restoration shop for 25 years, and can say that most customers fell into this catagory. Reading the forums, it is obvious that it holds true for many of model A owners, who will spend money to buy the car, then ask where they can get the cheapest engine rebuild, paint, interior, tires, etc. etc. My father used to say "you cant take your money with you when you die unless you eat it just before you die." If a person cannot spend the money to properly maintain their antique car, perhaps they should take up stamp collecting.

[BNCHIEF]

Plus you are a menace to other people on the road.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Just trying to keep those who were interested in Model A "Radial" tires and special Model A "Radial" tubes informed because interesting discussions and complaints are occurring on a different Model A Forum about recent (2017) experiences with new "leaking" Model A "Bias" tubes, (i.e., those in approximately the $17.00 range), and also with some Model A "Bias" tubes that always need pumping up every (2) weeks or so,

I'll continue to try to provide updates, but so far, (FWIW), even with driving around since April 23, 2017, (about 48 days), with 40 pounds of air, my five (5) new $46.00 Coker "Radial" tubes, with Coker installed "vulcanized" metal stems. never lost one ounce of air.

[BNCHIEF]

Thanks HL I am sold on the radials.

[CarlG]

I have close to 3,000 miles on my 550R19 Coker Radial tires. I put 200 miles on them this past weekend. I couldn't be more pleased with the performance, ride, and especially the way they handle on our rutted highways.