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  • Awesome
    been reading about it. I can’t wait to see it Mitch

    Comment


    • Hello to All,

      1 February 2021

      New Engine Update

      In case someone gets this email without seeing the full article on the "new" Model A engine, it is available at: http://www.modelaengine.com . This website also has engineering details, all of the previous updates, pictures, videos, and the latest "Builders Guide", "Doubling the Flow Area of a Model A Oil Pump", and "Installing an Oil Filter".

      If anyone has a question, concern, comment, suggestion, or wants to get on the email list for updates, please reply to [email protected]. We will add your email address to our mailing list for updates and do our best to address any questions that you may have.

      There have been several inquiries regarding the status and schedule for the new Model A engine kit (Cylinder Block, Crankshaft, and Connecting Rods).

      We expected to have parts near the end of January 2021, but are running about 4 weeks late.

      We placed a production order near the end of October 2020 with a promised delivery date near the end of January 2021.

      The delivery date and quantity of new Model A engine kits from China (Cylinder block, Crankshaft, and Connecting rods) are both being impacted by problems that we have no control over.

      The engine factory in China is huge and it has multiple machining lines. They recently received an order for 10,000 Mitsubishi engines. These engines will be manufactured on a line that has multiple special machines in series that is a modern version of the machining line seen in movies from the Ford archives.

      Since our order is small, it has lower priority and is being manufactured on a line using CNC machines. The good news is that the factory will maintain the same Quality Assurance standards whether the order is big or small. The bad news is that our requested quantity will not be met.

      After the production order was placed in October 2020, there has been an energy shortage in China, the factory where the flywheels are being manufactured is completely shut down because of a new Covid outbreak, and there is a shortage of shipping containers.

      I spoke with John Lampl today and the New Engine Kits being shipped to Australia/New Zealand, and Europe will be delivered to the container yard this week, and the New Engine Kits being shipped to the USA will be delivered to the container yard on February 9th.

      Terry Burtz

      Comment


      • so how many blocks short is the order? thanks ( on the list for 2)
        Last edited by old victoria; 02-01-2021, 06:58 PM.

        Comment


        • Are there any updates on the flywheels?
          3 ~ Tudor's
          Henry Ford said
          "It's all nuts and bolts"


          Mitch's Auto Service ctr

          Comment


          • The flywheels are being manufactured in a province that has been shut down due to a new Covid outbreak.

            I spoke with John Lampl, our team member responsible for manufacturing and unless something causes a further delay, 200 flywheels should be complete by the middle of March 2021.

            After shipping and US Customs, they should be in the warehouse in Hawthorne, CA by the middle of April 2121.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Terry_Burtz View Post
              The flywheels are being manufactured in a province that has been shut down due to a new Covid outbreak.

              I spoke with John Lampl, our team member responsible for manufacturing and unless something causes a further delay, 200 flywheels should be complete by the middle of March 2021.

              After shipping and US Customs, they should be in the warehouse in Hawthorne, CA by the middle of April 2121.
              In a hundred years, who will care?
              Alaskan A's
              Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska
              Model A Ford Club of America
              Model A Restorers Club
              Antique Automobile Club of America
              Mullins Owners Club

              Comment


              • Originally posted by CarlG View Post

                In a hundred years, who will care?
                i just dont trust anything that china says, we will have to wait and see, hope we dont get a pile of scrap iron.

                Comment


                • FWIW I was down at Seal Beach a couple weeks ago which is not far from Port Angelas Long Beach etc. There were container ships anchored from the ports as far out as you could see. Apparently a lot of the long shore men are off duty many from covid. There’s a higher rate of that in the area up there. I’ve heard from more sources besides what Terry and John have reported about the energy problems as well as the covid cases on the rise in China. We’ve had a very unusual year in 2020 that have affected a lot and made changes in a lot of ways. I’m sure John and Terry are doing every bit they possibly can and I think all of us that have gotten on the order list want their engine but patience can go a long way.

                  Terry, John, Leonard, and Bill all of you have done a great job and I’m patient and confident I’ll get my 2 engines I’ve asked for eventually. They will get here when they get here.

                  Comment


                  • Hello All
                    I have been watching this topic with much interest. I am not an engine builder although I have taken a few Model A engines apart and rebuilt them except for the babbitt. They worked out fairly well.
                    My question is an estimate on final cost of the Burtz engine. I looked through the Snyders catalog , just to get a ball park figure. I know the inserts, rear seal and some other parts are not available from Model A vendors. I know the parts I priced my not be what you want for your engine. I am just looking for a close final cost estimate. My estimate was $5,850 including Flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate. Not including shipping on anything. That is with me assembling the engine.
                    Again, I know there is many variables for consideration.
                    Thanks Tom

                    Comment


                    • Hi All,

                      For all of you who have an interest in purchasing the new Block Kit and have returned an order form to us. The first delivery of block kits are on the water now. The ETA port of LA is 2 March. We expect to have blocks available at the Hawthorn, CA distribution center by around the 10-12th of March. In the meantime, we will contact those of you who will receive block kits this production, to make arrangements for pick up or delivery. Also, note: the lightened flywheel production has been delayed and will not be arriving with the block kits. We expect the flywheels will be available by mid-April in the warehouse and we will notify everyone when they arrive.


                      The first production was a limited quantity, and many of you on the wait list will not get a block kit this round however, you will be placed at the top of the list for the next round of deliveries later this spring. We will update the new production schedule within the next 2-3 weeks and expect to get firm spring delivery dates for you by then.

                      John

                      Comment


                      • John, Thank you for the update
                        3 ~ Tudor's
                        Henry Ford said
                        "It's all nuts and bolts"


                        Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                        Comment


                        • Well, yesterday the Orange County MAFCA group had a seminar for the new engine, and I attended. First, I would like to thank Richard for hosting it, and having Leonard, and Jim Brierley for the talks. Unfortunately I had to turn my phone off, so no pictures from me, but maybe Dennis got pictures, we'll see.

                          Anyway, on to the block...well, I must say I am very impressed, an outstanding job done by all involved. One area of my concern was addressed and it appears to have the tappet bosses reduced for ease of adjustment of the Single Lock tappets. I did NOT have a measurement device handy to confirm. Overall fit and finish is great. One other area was the oil pump. As some of you may know, I have a unique way of anchoring the oil pump, and that is tapping the alignment hole 5/16x18 and threading in a threaded insert with 10x24 internal thread and using a 10x24 button head cap screw and just removing the alignment pin, well, Terry went one step further in simplifying this by adding a 5/16x18 threaded hole just inboard of the alignment hole for the use of something like a Toe Clamp, ingenious! You'll see this when you get the assembly book.

                          Terry kept the promise that it be a Model A engine that could pass Fine Point inspection.

                          I only have one area of concern, that is the thrust surface. They are using the aluminum insert 3 piece and knowing the average Model A owners proclivity for sitting waiting for a signal in gear troubles me using the aluminum thrust surface. It does however appear that the bronze inserts could be used with minimum effort if wanted.

                          I must say in conclusion, I am impressed.
                          You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

                          Comment


                          • Thank you Wiz
                            3 ~ Tudor's
                            Henry Ford said
                            "It's all nuts and bolts"


                            Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                            Comment



                            • DaWizard,

                              Thanks for attending the seminar at Richard's and your comments.

                              The lifter bosses have a height that is identical to a stock Model A cylinder block. If you want them shorter, they will need to be machined.

                              If you look closely, the rear main cap is drilled with an oil passage that provides pressurized oil over the width of the rear thrust bearing. This allows someone to keep their foot on the clutch pedal until their knee gives out.






                              The 1st production run of new engine kits is being picked up and shipped from the warehouse in Hawthorne, CA.

                              The 2nd production run has been ordered and is expected to arrive in June 2021.

                              The introductory price is in effect until the end of March 2021. After that date, the price to individuals will increase. Dealers will get a discount for quantity orders. The 1st production run is sold out. To get on the waiting list for the 2nd production run, go to www.modelaengine.com and fill out the order form under "How to Order". No deposit is required. Submit the form before the end of March to get the introductory price.

                              Many comments and questions have been made and asked. The following is a sampling of emails received.


                              Hi Terry,
                              Would you use or recommend using:
                              1. Larger exhaust valves
                              2. Bronze timing gear set
                              3. Adjustable lifters – single or two nut
                              I have read so many pros and cons, I no longer know the truth. I drive my Model A about 3K or more miles a year.
                              Thanks, Kerry


                              Kerry,

                              To get more performance, modern engines (and modified Model A engines) use larger intake valves.
                              Think of the engine as an air pump. It's easier to push air (exhaust) than to suck air (intake).
                              The intake ports of a stock Model A engine are more restrictive when compared to the new Model A engine.
                              My feeling is that oversize ports and stock-size valves in the new engine will flow close to the flow of oversize valves in an old engine. Flow bench testing would be needed to measure the difference.
                              I would use an aluminum timing gear. Bronze is stronger, but not worth the extra expense.
                              Single lock tappets are recommended.
                              Please read the attached "New Model A Engine Builders Guide".
                              Terry Burtz




                              To whom it may concern:
                              I would like to start by saying Wow! I read through your entire design article and I am amazed at everything you thought of and your talents in building something like this improved design.
                              If I understood correctly your first production run was produced in China. My question is do you foresee a future where you would have a US based foundry pour the pieces? My reason for asking is because I have a government job and prefer when possible to support US workers as they support me through their tax dollars. My second question is how much is the current run if there is no US batch in the plans?
                              Thank you for your time, Bob


                              Bob, Thanks for the kind words, compliments, and questions.
                              I tried having the new engine parts manufactured in CA for several years without success. The cylinder block is a complex casting that is beyond the capabilities of any remaining foundry in CA.
                              I'm in Silicon Valley and everything invented here is manufactured in the far east because CA is very unfriendly towards any manufacturing business.
                              The factories in China are friendly, eager to please, can hold the tight tolerances needed for this project, and their price is affordable.
                              Our orders are in the hundreds compared to Mitsubishi that just ordered 10,000 engines.
                              Terry Burtz




                              Thanks Terry-I just ordered one for June delivery I ordered it with flywheel -but I am running the later Ford clutch which means flywheel needs to be turned down ????? Am I better off using flywheel I have and turning it down here or ??? I imagine your flywheel is stock although lightened??
                              Thanks for your help
                              Best of luck with your venture ..Doug


                              Doug,Thanks for your order.
                              The 30-pound flywheel is drilled for the V-8 pressure plate.
                              Pasted below is what is in section 12 of "The New Engine Builders Guide" which can be found at www.modelaengine.com by clicking on "Guides".
                              12) Flywheel
                              The optional 30 pound flywheel is machined to use the Ford V-8 9-inch "Long design" pressure plate (48-7563 or 09A-7563). We do not recommend the use of the 8N-7563 tractor pressure plate. The new flywheel is machined to accept the original Ford shoulder bolts (350433- S) that attach the pressure plate to the flywheel. Other 5/16-18 shoulder bolts can be used. Shoulder bolts are much stronger in shear than fully threaded bolts. These bolts should use lock washers and we recommend a torque of 18 lb-ft. The new flywheel does not come with a ring gear installed because the beveled teeth on the ring gear need to be at the rear if using a Model A starter, and at the front if using a gear reduction starter. We do not recommend the use of a "barrel" tractor starter drive instead of an original Bendix because the "barrel" drive has a shorter throw (the distance that the pinion gear moves between rest and extension), and it will not engage the ring gear completely. The new flywheel does not come with a pilot bearing because some people prefer the porous bronze oil impregnated bushing while others prefer a ball bearing.
                              Terry Burtz




                              John , Charlie Yapp recommended I speak to you gentlemen . He told me about your new engine, why I should be interested in it ,-- and I’m doing a 1939 Model a engine Dirt Track racecar . But I have some questions for you .
                              1. My understanding is it’s a new block , 5 main crank (insert bearings ) and a set of insert brg rods ?
                              2. Does it need line boreing ?
                              3. Cam bearings ?
                              4. Valve seats installed?
                              5. What R.P.M should this attain and still live?
                              6. Deck planed?
                              7. Bores done? Why aren’t pistons supplied?
                              8. Not balanced? And no bearings supplied?
                              9. Is it cleaned i.e does it need hot tanking or ?
                              10. Anything else I need to know ?
                              11. Cost ?
                              12. Sorry I know its lots of questions I’m just trying to figure out costs compared to a total machine shop rebuild and the surprises that come from rebuilding with questionable block /crank etc . (mine not yours)
                              Shipping? from Calif to 13669 (upper New York ) commercial dock unloading -if you have an idea please advise . Thanks and advise what your delivery timing is . Doug


                              Doug,
                              Thanks for your interest in the new Model A engine kit.
                              For more details, please see www.modelaengine.com
                              Regarding your questions:
                              1) Yes, you get a new cylinder block, crankshaft, and 4 connecting rods.
                              2) The cylinder block is line bored and each of the 5-main caps is aligned with 2 dowel pins.
                              3) The cylinder block comes with 5 cam bearings installed.
                              4) The exhaust valve seats are hard and replaceable. Intake seats are grey iron and can be enlarged.
                              5) The connecting rod was finite element analyzed and stresses were low at 5500 RPM. During engineering evaluation testing, we assembled the engine and then broke it in by running it at 3100 RPM for 6 hours straight.
                              6) The upper surface of the cylinder block is machined and ready for assembly.
                              7) The bores are ready for assembly. We used Egge pistons with narrow rings in the engineering evaluation engine and they fit with .004-inch wall clearance. We are only supplying the unique parts needed to build a new engine that looks stock but has internal improvements. Any piston that fits a stock Model A engine can be used.
                              8) The 4 connecting rods are balanced as a set. The crankshaft is static and dynamically balanced. Insert bearings (Federal Mogul 2020 CP) were used in GM V-8 engines, in-line 6-cylinder engines, and in-line 4-cylinder engines from 1955 until 2003 and are readily available from almost any auto parts supplier, Amazon, and eBay.
                              9) The parts are lightly oiled, placed in plastic bags, and shipped in wooden crates. They may accumulate dust and there may be chips in the oil passages from machining. In the "Builder's Guide", we recommend that all parts be surgically clean for long engine life.
                              10) Read everything on www.modelaengine.com Some of the information in the "Main Article" has changed as the design has matured.
                              11) The introductory price is $3500 until the end of March 2021. After that date, the price to individuals is $3950. Dealers will get a discount for quantity orders. The 1st production run is sold out. To get on the waiting list for the 2nd production run, go to www.modelaengine.com and fill out the order form under "How to Order". No deposit is required. Submit the form before the end of March to get the introductory price.
                              John Lampl has made arrangements with a shipping company that will ship at a discount rate. When you return the order form, you will get a quote including sales tax and shipping to the residential or commercial address that you specify.
                              The 2nd production run is expected to arrive in June 2021. After the container is on the ship and leaves China, you will receive an invoice.
                              Terry Burtz




                              Hey Terry,
                              Ive been planning regarding building new model A... Burtz engine.
                              1- Any problem with having your new 5 main crank ... drilled for full pressure ? Any comment as to good/ bad /unnecessary , etc ...
                              2- Can a model A oil pan be used, or must a model B pan be used (with your new engine blk) ? Any pan mods necessary to use either ?
                              3- oil pump use.
                              What pump did you end up using when engine was first built/run ?
                              Did you end up with modern high volume pump (Stipe?).
                              Did you ever use pressured oil system in new engine. Comment ?
                              4- Do you have WRITTEN instruction/advice to go with blk order ?
                              5- are surfaces FLAT, or need to be made flat ?
                              THANKS TERRY !
                              Your friend
                              Richard



                              Richard,
                              1) The new Model A engine crankshaft is drilled for oil pressure from the mains to the connecting rods and the connecting rod journals are cross-drilled. There are no dippers on the connecting rods, but the reinforcing ribs extend the same length to splash oil for cylinder wall, wrist pin, tappet, and valve guide lubrication2) A stock unmodified Model A oil pan can be used. Dimpling is not needed.
                              3) We used a stock Model A oil pump that was modified to double the area of all passages and incorporate a relief valve. See "Doubling the Flow Area of a Model A Oil Pump" at www.modelaengine.com We did not use an oil filter on the engineering evaluation engine. There are 17 drilled oil passages in the cylinder block and 4 in the crankshaft that supplied pressure lubrication in the engineering evaluation engine.
                              4) I'm attaching the "Builders Guide", "Doubling the Flow Area of A Model A Oil Pump", and "Installing an Oil Filter". These should answer many questions. The "New Model A Engine Builders Guide" and other documents are evolving and subject to change. The latest revisions can be found under "GUIDES" at www.modelaengine.com
                              5) All machined surfaces are flat, have the proper surface finish, and follow the original Ford drawing. Within the last month, the factory in China received an order for 10,000 Mitsubishi engines, and the new Model A engine will have the same precision and quality assurance.
                              Terry Burtz





                              Hi Terry,
                              Hope this finds you well and in good spirits. I'm hoping to hear soon that the engines will be shipping out of LA. In the meantime I was wondering if it would be a good idea when it arrives to balance the crank, crankshaft gear and pulley, rods, pistons, and flywheel as an assembly before putting the engine all together? If this is advisable, should I include the clutch assembly as well? I have an A friend that said he would help me with the assembly (he's done many in his time) and said we should record the process and then post it online. I think that might be a fun thing to do. I have a local machinist who's working on the special bolts needed for the oil filter and oil pressure gauge.
                              Steve


                              Steve,

                              I'm in good spirits and thanks for your comments.
                              The engine kits are at Averitt Express, 3133 West 131st Street, Hawthorne, CA 90250, Phone 800 283-7488, https://www.averittexpress.com/publi...tor/CA/LGB.jspThe kits are ready for pick up at Averitt or will be shipped from Averitt if you are in the first production run.
                              The new connecting rods are balanced as a set and not with any other parts.
                              Pistons are balanced as a set from the manufacturer.
                              The new crankshaft is static and dynamically balanced.
                              When they arrive (mid-April), the new flywheels will be balanced.
                              The new engine parts are made and balanced in a factory that makes 10's of thousands of engines to tolerances that are very tight. There are shops that assemble formula 1 engines that rev to 18000 RPM and the balance in this application needs to be more precise.
                              The crankshaft timing gear and front pulley have a very small mass that is close to the center of rotation and they don't need to be balanced.
                              Instead of balancing each rotating part separately which takes more time, automobile machine shops get lazy, want to maximize profit, and talk the customer into balancing all rotating parts as an assembly.
                              The other reason for balancing the "assembly" is because of machining errors where the flywheel mounting flange is no longer concentric with the rear main journal. When this happens, the crankshaft and flywheel need to be matched marked and will only be in balance when match marks are aligned.
                              The new engine parts are all balanced separately and no match marks are needed.
                              Having everything balanced as an assembly makes it difficult if you want to change one rotating part because all rotating parts will need to be rebalanced as an assembly.
                              Terry Burtz






                              Hi Terry,Thanks so much for getting back to me. It appears from your description that additional balancing will not be necessary (I don't think I'll be formula 1 racing anytime soon).
                              Just want to make sure I do everything correctly (the first time).
                              If I'm in the second production run any idea when they might arrive?
                              Thanks again for all your help.
                              Steve


                              Steve,You are correct, everything from the factory is balanced individually.
                              During the engineering evaluation testing during the 6-hour test at 3100 RPM (75 MPH), there were no noticeable vibrations.
                              The 2nd production run should be here in June 2021 unless it has the same problems as the 1st production run (new Covid outbreak, energy shortage, container shortage, and stuck in a holding pattern off the coast of Los Angeles waiting to unload).
                              Terry Burtz





                              Good morning Terry, can you tell me if using Chrome moly rings will be a good combination for the new block. I don’t suppose the is anything special about the type of cast iron. Any gray cast used in modern block casting should be fine.
                              Looking forward to my kit availability. I have been in touch with a gent in Vancouver, WA to facilitate shipping. I have offered to pickup those kits available for Oregon an Washington. I believe he said sometime in May.
                              In any case, looking forward to the time of delivery.
                              Best regards,
                              Larry



                              Larry,The cylinder block is a modern grey iron alloy that is compatible with any ring choice.
                              You may want to consider using thinner than stock rings.
                              Rings are either chrome or moly, but not both.
                              Please read https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/...commendations/
                              We used Hastings ring set 665 in the engineering evaluation engine along with Egge E1104 pistons.
                              Terry Burtz



                              Comment


                              • Thanks Terry for the post.
                                Since I have not heard anything, I’ll assume I’m on the second ship.
                                3 ~ Tudor's
                                Henry Ford said
                                "It's all nuts and bolts"


                                Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                                Comment


                                • Mitch and Others,

                                  John Lampl has the "master" list.

                                  Please contact John at [email protected] to verify that you are on the list for the 2nd production run.

                                  Make sure that your order is placed and you are on the list before the end of March to get the introductory price.

                                  Comment


                                  • I don't now how you keep your sanity Terry. Seems this project is complex, been full of obstacles/roadblocks, and has taken a very long time. Your patience is unbelievable.


                                    3 cheers and 5 thumbs up for Terry.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by DaWizard View Post
                                      Terry kept the promise that it be a Model A engine that could pass Fine Point inspection.
                                      That is truly a feat, if it is totally undetectable on a fine point visual.
                                      3 ~ Tudor's
                                      Henry Ford said
                                      "It's all nuts and bolts"


                                      Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Mitch View Post
                                        That is truly a feat, if it is totally undetectable on a fine point visual.
                                        Well, there are two holes that the original doesn't have. The front hole is behind the cam gear, the second on the rear just above the flywheel housing mounting pad, but unless somebody squeals on ya, neither hole is visible without major work to get a visual, so passing fine point will get down to paint color, not engine appearance.
                                        You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

                                        Comment


                                        • Wonder if it was difficult getting the exterior surface texture similar/match an original motor?

                                          Comment


                                          • This block was laser scanned for every detail that an original block had. I can say this much ... it’s totally AWESOME!!!

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by DaWizard View Post


                                              I only have one area of concern, that is the thrust surface. They are using the aluminum insert 3 piece and knowing the average Model A owners proclivity for sitting waiting for a signal in gear troubles me using the aluminum thrust surface. It does however appear that the bronze inserts could be used with minimum effort if wanted.

                                              I must say in conclusion, I am impressed.
                                              Wiz, that area of concern you have has been addressed in engineering and the production. There is a hole in the rear main bearing cap that feeds the center hole of the rear thrust that continually has oil pressure. I’ve included pictures to show that. The larger hole below that is to drain the cavity between the seal and crankshaft back to the sump.
                                              You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                                              This gallery has 4 photos.

                                              Comment


                                              • So that is why the center screw was missing, ingenious.
                                                You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

                                                Comment


                                                • Terry, are you saying that there could be a wear problem if the wide ring pistons and rings are used?
                                                  You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

                                                  Comment


                                                  • https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...st-i-can/page3
                                                    Read post #63. Thin rings were used in the evaluation because of wear characteristics, less tension and better lubricants. Harder cylinder walls which the new Model A engine has. Why don’t you do a google search ?

                                                    Comment

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                                                      Hello to All,

                                                      26 November 2019
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                                                      Cracked block
                                                      by 31Roadster
                                                      I have a cracked block left side of engine leaking water . May try Blue Devil Block sealer . Any other suggestions other than a new block. I used it last year for a sand hole casting leak in the valve adjusting chamber worked out good so far over 2000 miles on that repair .
                                                      08-27-2017, 11:29 AM
                                                    • wrndln
                                                      Grind wheel dresser
                                                      by wrndln
                                                      I use my bench grinder a lot. The carbide wheel gets uneven when I grind small items. I am thinking about buying a dresser to even the face of the wheel. On eBay there are basically two types - a type with many round spurs on it (the old style) and a diamond dresser. The diamond dressers are much cheaper. I pasted a picture from eBay below . Has anyone had an experience, good or bad with the...
                                                      04-23-2020, 12:33 PM
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