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  • Quick question for you A experts

    Is there anything I need to replace with doing just a brake inspection?? I plan to grease bearings while apart, but should I order hub seals or anything else before I start? I’m thinking the brakes just need adjusted, but I won’t know till we tear into it

  • #2
    Actually you don't need to tear into it to know if they need adjusting. Just use an IR temp gun and check the temps after a drive with a few stops and adjust the ones that are coldest.

    If you insist on tearing into them, be sure you use a high temp drum brake bearing grease.
    You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

    Comment


    • #3
      A new to you car? For sure service the bearings. I would pop the rear seals, clean and repack the rear hub bearings. When they are out check inside the rear hub to make sure the bearing cage has not grooved into the hub. Make sure the faces of those cages are not worn thin. (both sides should have the same thickness) There has been past issues with bad rear bearings being produced, which caused this. Buy the rear seal install tool (money well spent), new rear seals, and the little gaskets that go under the rear axle nuts. It wouldn't hurt to get two new snap rings as well. If you see metallic particles or gray looking grease beware. Check the front races for pitting and all the rollers front and rear. I think I have a bad hub and bearing at work that I can dig out as an example, but the link below shows it
      Check out this post of the devastation that can happen

      https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...2086#post12086
      3 ~ Tudor's
      Henry Ford said
      "It's all nuts and bolts"


      Mitch's Auto Service ctr

      Comment


      • #4
        I’m just unsure on the brake linings. The wheels haven’t been off for quite a while

        Comment


        • #5
          I think the message here is if you are willing to get inside a Model A, do it right as suggested. Both Les Andrews books help those who may not have all the knowledge of Model A restoration redo their As close to original. More valuable is all the VFF guys here. Incredible help and answers.

          When you want to sell it, you should get a nice price because it was restored properly.

          Take the time and do it right. See my closing statement.
          ____________________
          Good enough.. Isn't.

          Comment


          • #6
            +1 for pulling the drums and inspecting everything, good practice with a new 90 year old car. Also, didn't see it mentioned but if those hubs haven't been off in a while you will most likely need a puller.

            Comment


            • #7
              Kinda like our modern PA annual state inspection program. By the rule book we have the option to pull all 4 wheels or just two caddy corner wheels to check brakes. I have seen brakes like new on one side and metal to metal on the other. Stuck e-cable, wheel cylinder, caliper, clogged brake hose etc can cause that. We always pull 4 wheels on every car.

              A little off topic for an A but the same principal. You can break a brake spring in one wheel
              3 ~ Tudor's
              Henry Ford said
              "It's all nuts and bolts"


              Mitch's Auto Service ctr

              Comment


              • #8
                Always good to check the brakes.
                Some here may remember Mike Wing aka Wingski; it was the good eyes of this forum that really helped him fix his “restored” Cabriolet. His brake levers were on upside down....ect. It was this forum, and its great membership that helped walk him through that nightmare.
                Jamey please post some pictures of your findings. We might find something that was overlooked by the previous owner.
                Please remember, there is no judgement here, only helping advice. . Jeff
                Twiss Collector Car Parts

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mitch View Post
                  Kinda like our modern PA annual state inspection program. By the rule book we have the option to pull all 4 wheels or just two caddy corner wheels to check brakes. I have seen brakes like new on one side and metal to metal on the other. Stuck e-cable, wheel cylinder, caliper, clogged brake hose etc can cause that. We always pull 4 wheels on every car
                  In these situations - Is it possible to have these issues without symptoms? Or would you notice the car pulling to one side, or decreased braking, or tendency to have one wheel lock in gravel or pea gravel on paved county roads?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 1930 Closed Cab PU View Post
                    Is it possible to have these issues without symptoms?
                    Yep usually it's not detected until a physical inspection. Tight caliper slides are very common for uneven wear
                    3 ~ Tudor's
                    Henry Ford said
                    "It's all nuts and bolts"


                    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      With a car and grease unknown to you, it's always best to clean ALL old grease out, wash inspect and repack bearings. Some grease is not compatible with other types making it run.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        First rule on cars new to me.

                        Take wheels off and inspect the brakes and wheel bearings.

                        People do not know how to pack bearings for one. For another people will 'restore' a car with almost no new mechanical parts. What are a few pits in the bearings if you only drive around town?

                        The brakes are a big thing. If you do not have cast iron drums then they need to be replaced in almost every case. If you have the correct tools to measure the drums and check for roundness then you might be able consider the steel drums good (I have one set at like .020 over in a pile). Odds are the brakes are not done right either. The shoes MUST be sized to the drums and MUST be centered. Look for even 100% contact. Anything less and you have suspect brakes.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kevin in NJ View Post
                          What are a few pits in the bearings if you only drive around town?
                          If I have pitted bearings in my hands they are getting changed. Doesn't matter if I'm driving around town or around the block. Bearings are a wear item that can't be restored to factory specs without replacement.
                          3 ~ Tudor's
                          Henry Ford said
                          "It's all nuts and bolts"


                          Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I’ll post some pics as we tear into it. I do know how to pack bearings by hand, & a few years ago I picked up a bearing packer at Oreileys. I also have an outside mic that I can measure the thickness of the drums & have a dial indicator that I believe I can set up to be sure my brakes are centered. Thanks for all the advice

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jamey E View Post
                              I’ll post some pics as we tear into it. I do know how to pack bearings by hand, & a few years ago I picked up a bearing packer at Oreileys.
                              It would be best to use the bearing packer you picked up at Oriellys. If you do it by hand be sure to wear gloves to protect the grease, it was pointed out to me years ago that amino acids in your skin can break down the grease over time.
                              28 Tudor
                              57 Tbird
                              2kMR2 Spyder
                              62 Willys Pickup

                              Wise man once told me you don’t know what you don’t know

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                So far it appears that the brakes just needed adjusting. I just finished with the fronts, moving to the rears now. I don’t believe the front drums are cast iron though. Extremely light weight
                                You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                                This gallery has 2 photos.

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                                • #17
                                  The rears just needed adjusting also. Still don’t think rear drums were cast either. My drums on my Ranger weigh more than these. Hopefully weather will allow a test drive

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Arm chair mechanic here - are there lube/oiling places that should/can be lubed as long as the drums are off - tracks, pivot points, etc? Am asking do not know.

                                    The barke linings ends are on an angle - is this what chamfering the linings look like?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I’m going to use a little brake cleaner, but don’t think I’m going to use any oil or grease in there. My luck, it would end up on the brake shoes!!!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Brakes are working great!! It’s so nice to actually have pedal. Before it would go clear to the floor. I have to back the drivers front brake off 1 click. It pulls a little when you hit the brakes.

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Keep in mind if you had to adjust the brakes that much you have moved the effective center of shoes.
                                          In centering the brakes the procedure would be to first check the shoes have the same curve as the drums. You then have to set the shoes at close to the diameter of the drums before checking center.
                                          If the shoes were centered then you cranked the adjuster you may have reduced your braking power.

                                          To know if you have steel drums the edge by the backing plate would have a U shape. Production era cast drums would have openings on the front like spokes and you would know you have cast. Modern cast look like steel but the edge by the backing plate will be like a bead going round.
                                          When you had the steel drums if you look in at the part where it curves around to the face. If you can see wear there then it is likely they are too thin. The major problem would be brake fade. A couple of quick stops and you might find the car does not want to stop so good.

                                          Please keep in mind the car should stop confidently at any speed. So while you think it stops good without reference to a well done car it might be far from what it should be. You should also understand the A was designed to run 60 MPH and when properly rebuilt it can so it comfortably.

                                          That all being said.

                                          If your confident to go around with the car, drive it have fun. Take some time to learn about things. For brakes if you decide maybe you need new, I would make a strong recommendation paying one of the A shops to make up a matched set of drums and loaded backing plates. It really does take some special expensive tools to 100% braking out of the A. When you have it you will find many other cars are just plain scary to drive. Plus it is a do it once and not worry about it the next 40 years or so thing (depending on how much you drive).

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            The problem I’m having is not knowing how the brakes were set up by whoever did it last. Before I changed anything, the brake pedal would go completely to the floor when stopping the car. I measured the distance between the front of the seat to the pedal before it is pushed. Then I depressed the pedal completely & measured again. I then cut a board to hold the brake pedal completely down & tried to spin each wheel while the car was up in the air. I was able to spin each wheel with minor resistance. Then I cut another board to hold the brake pedal halfway down & adjusted each wheel to the point that I couldn’t spin it. Now, this might not be the “by the book” way to do it, but the car stops better now than I’m sure it has for a long time.
                                            Our next plan is to order the complete front & rear sets from Mike’s. That will be a winter project

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...ment-procedure
                                              3 ~ Tudor's
                                              Henry Ford said
                                              "It's all nuts and bolts"


                                              Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Thanks Mitch!!

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  Jamey E I found those pictures of how the faulty rear bearings wear before they blow up. Notice how the end race wears down until the pins fall out. The end race is softer metal than the hub so you really wont see any damage to the hub until it grenades. The picture with the side by side bearing shows an unworn one on the right. The unworn bearing has those extra supports in between every two rollers, where as the defective ones do not have any



                                                  bearing2.jpgbearing3.jpg
                                                  3 ~ Tudor's
                                                  Henry Ford said
                                                  "It's all nuts and bolts"


                                                  Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                                                  Comment

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