Fuel Tank Clean

[jmart76]

I'm a proud new owner of a 1929 Fordor. This is my first restoration so excuse my ignorance.

I can turn the engine over, but it doesn't stay started ( Video link below). After I made the video, I pulled the sediment bowl and it was full of rust. My next plan is to clean the fuel tank and either clean the carb or purchase a carb on ebay (please let me know what you prefer).

so here's my question - How can I clean the tank?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27e6...61319603883323

[JDupuis]

Welcome jmart to the VFF!
There are other discussions about cleaning the fuel tank here on the forum.
Your problem is nothing new to us Model A cronies. A simple cleaning of the carb will do great improvements.
The fuel tank can be sloshed out while still in the car, then everyone will agree to put a pencil filter inside the tank with the fuel shut off.
Thank You for joining this great forum. Jeff

[Mitch]

jmart76 Welcome to our VFF!! Congrats on your 29 Fordor. Is your sediment bulb cast iron or is it the glass style? The cast irons can rust out inside and cause problems. Do you see rust when looking inside the fuel tank with a flashlight? If so does it look severe?

[Mitch]

Take note of the technical forums here. On this link post #1 is something that we look for, because it’s very common, as JD mentioned above.
https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...-purchase-an-a

Also look at this thread

https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...sed-your-new-a

[Poor Boy]

Welcome and congratulation on your new car. You might want to think about running it on a small temporary tank until you Get it sorted out. I made a small tank from a clean lacquer thinners can with a brass bushing soldered into the bottom and a ford style screw in filter. I strapped o CB magnet to it and it will hang on the firewall. It is a hit with my buddies and gets frequent use.
Also there is a good thread here on what to do and be careful of on any new unknown car. Good luck and have fun. Jim.

[DaWizard]

Hey jmart, WELCOME to the VFF!!

Whatever you do, DO NOT vacuum the fuel tank out as it will explode your vacuum!

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

Hey jmart, WELCOME to the VFF!!

Whatever you do, DO NOT vacuum the fuel tank out as it will explode your vacuum!

X2, no gas fumes near anything that can spark, electrical, switches - or it can go KA BOOM.

[Mitch]

DaWizard you mean like this

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

DaWizard you mean like this

Nothing like a visual aid to reinforce things.

[Mitch]

500.00 to repair sounds cheap. Dang thing was toast

[jmart76]

Wow! I'm overwhelmed with the responses on here! Here are some answers from above:

- Is your sediment bulb cast iron or is it the glass style?: It is cast iron. I took the bottom off yesterday and it was all rusty and pretty gross. I have it in vinegar right now to clean it.

- Do you see rust when looking inside the fuel tank with a flashlight? If so does it look severe?: so I have a little camera that I can connect to my phone; I put it in there and looked around, it didn't look that bad. I then put my finger in and wiped on the top of the tank and it was all rusty. Do you think I'll need to clean it? I'm a bit leary to take it off and bring it to a radiator shop. The sediment filter that goes in the fuel tank (where you fill the gas) was all rusty, but I cleaned that with vinegar.

-Good idea on the pencil filter, I think I'll add that.

-I wasn't planning to use a vacuum, especially now after seeing that vid .

-I forgot to post the link to my video (I edited above) and included it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27e6...61319603883323

[Mitch]

Wow after watching your video now I'm overwhelmed It will take some time to post this.
It was a good video btw.

[DaWizard]

Whew, that shut off valve farmer fix is a new one on me. Start by ordering a few parts.

Valve & pencil filter https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/ProductDetail/A-9189-A_FUEL-SHUT-OFF-VALVE-USA?fromCategory=Products/model-a/gas-tank
Fuel line from valve to firewall
Glass sediment bowl & filter https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/ProductDetail/A-9155_SEDIMENT-BULB-GLASS?fromCategory=Products/model-a/gas-tank
Fuel line from sediment bowl to carburetor
Carburetor gasket kit (or if really bad inside after taking it apart, carb rebuild kit)

That will get you started to a realistic repair of the farmer fix, which isn't doing you any good at this point. The rubber line will deteriorate with the fuel. The steel fuel line to the carb is directionally wrong and will cause you problems too.

[Mitch]

Whew, that shut off valve farmer fix is a new one on me

It's a dirty leg set up, but not a pretty one

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

It least it wants to run, a great start. Does not seem to have major electrical/ignition issues. Definitely seems to have some carburation issues if the GAV/Choke knob will not turn, and only wants to run with messing with the choke. Might be the GAV at/in the carb is froze, needs a little encouragement with pb blaster or wd 40. Or disconnect the gav/choke rod and remove the GAV from the carb and see why it does not turn.

If you are familiar with carbs, it is easy to try the basic remove, open it up and do a basic cleaning, at this point nothing to lose.

If not familiar with Carbs, make sure you invest in the best you can get from a major A parts supplier. Others can chime in about if their are suitable carbs available on E-bay that would be guaranteed issue free. Its also possible you may have air leaks on the intake manifold and/or carb/air intake manifold.

Another possibility is to not use the gas tank in the car,. Hang a small fuel tank from the hood/radiator support rods and go directly into the carb. You can at least remove/clean the filter in/on the carb, and drain the bowl with fresh gas from the tank hung from the support rods. This way at least you know you have sufficient supply of good/clean gas.

If you do get it started, since it has been sitting, and before running it more than a few minutes, may want to drop the oil pan and check for sludge in the bottom of the oil pan. If sludge the valve area and passages behind the valve access panel should also be cleaned out. This should be done to insure you do not damage the Babbit bearings due to lack of oil flow and crap floating around in the oil.

[jmart76]

I appreciate all the help!

Yeah... I knew that the fuel shutoff was a bit "ghetto" and will replace it soon. To be honest, I just wanna drive the thing!

I forgot to mention that when I was working on it yesterday, I left the fuel open and noticed the carb leaking quite a bit. I have a rebuild kit in the mail, but have been told that it's more a "art" than a "science" and I may just get one on eBay.

I was going to change the oil too (as mentioned above). Can I tell if I need to drop the pan when I drain it due to sludge? Or, do I need to drop the pan to verify?

What oil do you use with these?

I've seen some sediment bowls with an internal filter, but have also read that you may want to steer clear of these as it may bog down the fuel - thoughts?

[JDupuis]

jmart76
Just finished watching the video, I'm trying to see how your battery hook up is.
These cars are 6 volt with the Positive wire connected to ground, I may be mistaken, but it looks like you have your battery connected with Negative wire to ground.
(Just another small part of the learning curve)
When starting the car...have the spark lever, the one on the left side of the steering wheel, all the way up. Only pull it down to about 10 o’clock position once the engine is started but drive it at around the 9 o’clock position.
Seems to me from what I see, that giving that carb a good cleaning, (idle jet/port may be plugged) and you should be over the hurdle.
Hope this helps. Jeff

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

I appreciate all the help!

Yeah... I knew that the fuel shutoff was a bit "ghetto" and will replace it soon. To be honest, I just wanna drive the thing!

I forgot to mention that when I was working on it yesterday, I left the fuel open and noticed the carb leaking quite a bit. I have a rebuild kit in the mail, but have been told that it's more a "art" than a "science" and I may just get one on eBay.

I was going to change the oil too (as mentioned above). Can I tell if I need to drop the pan when I drain it due to sludge? Or, do I need to drop the pan to verify?

What oil do you use with these?

I've seen some sediment bowls with an internal filter, but have also read that you may want to steer clear of these as it may bog down the fuel - thoughts?

Kinda of hard to tell some times on sludge, if really bad, with the dipstick on the full mark, drain the oil, should get about 4.5 quarts. If less you may have sludge. Of if you let it drain thoroughly you may see blobs of stuff draining - sludge. If you poke around the drain hole and get gunk on the end of it, you have sludge. By dropping the pan, you can also get a visual on the lower end of the motor, see how much wear it has, etc. If you drop the pan, ask for info, the oil pump drops out too, and there is a way to retain it in the block. If dropping the pan you should pull the oil pump out and check/clean the oil pump filter screen.

When carb is leaking, feel around in the bottom of the carb air intake with your pinky finger, if wet with gas, most likely your carb float valve is not seating. On an A when the float bowl overfills, it leaks out the air intake, there is a small weep hole in the bottom of the intake the leaking gas drains through, ends up making it way down the carb and drips/runs off the bolt head on the bottom of the carb.

Here is a poll of what people use. If the car was using non detergent, best to drop the pan and pull the valve access cover and wipe/clean things, then switch to detergent oil. All any modern decent detergent oil is tons better than was around in the 30s.
https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...il-to-use-info

[JDupuis]

Once the oil is drained, stick your index finger in the drain hole, and feel around the bottom of the pan, if it is heavily sludged up, you will feel it.

[Mitch]

So you have yourself quite a project there. It's not to bad if you take a systematic approach to everything. If you start jumping around then you'll get into trouble. It's good that the car wants to run. It tries to with the choke plate half closed because that richens up the mixture by letting less air in. This tells us that the fuel delivery system and or carburetor are all blocked up. (prob both). You definitely need to start out by doing what the others have said. Hang a gravity fed alternate fuel source first, with fresh clean fuel. You did the worst thing possible by trying to run it on the original contaminated system. If it was not there already you fed the carburetor full of. There is also a chance that you could feed old syrupy gas into the motor which will hang up the valves and rings. It's all a big nono. The alternate fuel source can be made from a lawn mower tank, or even a universal radiator overflow tank. That's what I use, but anything with a nipple for a 1/4 fuel hose will work. Hook the fuel hose directly to the fuel line going to the carburetor. If you have to cut the fuel line fine, they are cheap. Hang it high so it gravity feeds to the carb. This is how you'll run the motor until you straighten out the rest of the fuel system. For sure go through the carb, clean it out and also the carb inlet screen. Here is a very good carb site to help you out.
http://modela.org/

Always start the car with the spark lever UP. Once she is running then pull it down to about the 9:00 position. This is hot or cold always up.
Your farmered tank valve looks like a half ass dirty leg set up. See this post which will explain

https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...934#post175934

Along with that post read the first post in that same tech thread. It tells about using a stand up and a glass sediment bulb with a filter inside. The part numbers are all there.
For sure a rusty tank is a problem, there are many ways to resolve this but it's not a fun problem.

Again take your time and ask questions. These folks here are eager to see you through.

I would also make sure the point gap is about .020.

Oh you mentioned about the wood. Your particular model is a wood nightmare for most folks. Many other Model A models have substantially less wood. Here is a pic of what your wood looks like de skined, another technical thread on wood.
Look for the Fordor wood pics post

https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...2942#post52942


I think you are armed with enough info, just take your time and read through it all. Including the two tech links I gave you earlier about buying a Model A and what to do after you purchased one.

Keep us posted

[Mitch]

What oil do you use with these?

Here is an oil tech thread.
https://www.vintagefordforum.com/for...il-to-use-info

[jmart76]

Here’s a picture of the battery connection as discussed earlier.

[JDupuis]

jmart76
As I thought, unfortunately your battery is hooked up incorrectly.
On the frame area, there is a hole already drilled, it is located behind the battery, on the cross member that your seats are attached to.
That flat wire mesh ground strap should be bolted/grounded there, then attached to the Pos battery terminal.
the Neg battery lead goes directly to the starter terminal.
Hope this helps.
Many of us, run an extra ground strap to the transmission as well, the same as your car is.
Always keep in mind, these are Positive ground.
. Jeff

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

jmart76
As I thought, unfortunately your battery is hooked up incorrectly.
On the frame area, there is a hole already drilled, it is located behind the battery, on the cross member that your seats are attached to.
That flat wire mesh ground strap should be bolted/grounded there, then attached to the Pos battery terminal.
the Neg battery lead goes directly to the starter terminal.
Hope this helps.
Many of us, run an extra ground strap to the transmission as well, the same as your car is.
Always keep in mind, these are Positive ground.
. Jeff

Is it possible some one coverted it to 6v negative ground? Would only have to repolarize the generator, and do something about the starter?

If it is currently turning the over the motor in the correct direction for starting, then it is hooked up correctly for negative ground?

The cable terminals are correct for the way they go onto the battery posts. Larger terminal for the plus cable. smaller for the negative terminal.

Or am I confused?

[DaWizard]

1930 Closed Cab PU You are not confused, the starter runs the same direction no matter which way the polarity of the battery is applied, and you are correct, to run Neg chassis only takes polarizing the generator and swapping the wires on the ammeter.