Front Wheel Groaning

[Snagglewhen]

My front right (passenger) wheel has recently taken to making a slight groaning sound while backing up. Not always, but sometimes. This sound does not occur when driving forward. I replaced the bearings in this wheel about a year ago with new Timken bearings. Could one of them have gone bad or am I looking at something else here?

The A has hydraulic brakes, if that makes a difference.

[tbirdtbird]

Hmmmmmm....
bearing too tight? too loose?
not enough grease?
brake shoes dragging?
properly inflated tire?

could be bad bearing but prolly not that quickly....

anyone else?

[Snagglewhen]

Bearing too tight? too loose?

I thought that the wheel might be too loose on the spindle, so I tightened it up a notch on the castle nut. Nothing dragged, but the groaning was still there. I will try another notch and see if that is too much.

not enough grease?

I took the drum off and greased the bearings with STA-PLEX Red Grease to make sure this wasn't the issue.

brake shoes dragging?

Could the shoes drag in one direction? I've never heard of that before.

properly inflated tire?

I just installed metal valve stems, so all the tires are inflated correctly. Will double check.

[Mitch]

if the wheel rotates when jacked up in the air smoothly in both directions with no play I doubt its a bearing issue

try having someone hit the brakes while the wheel is still jacked up with you at the tire
brake on the wheel should lock up, brake off the wheel should rotate in both directions freely. (as soon as the pedal is released) if there is a delayed release then
just a thought,,,frozen wheel cylinder or restricted brake hose

something to eliminate

loose backing plate???

[tbirdtbird]

good ideas from Mitch....

as for wheel bearing tightness, with wheel jacked off ground, we adjust as follows:
one hand top of wheel, one on bottom. Assuming king pins are not worn, we like to just barely move the wheel top to bottom...almost imperceptibly. If no motion at all, too tight. With this method you'll know right quick if too loose. If you do not end up on a castle window back off to next window, never make it tighter

others can chime in

[Snagglewhen]

if the wheel rotates when jacked up in the air smoothly in both directions with no play I doubt its a bearing issue

When I jack the car up, sometimes the wheel groans and skips when rotating backwards. Same as when driving, it does not occur when rotating forward.

I will test to see if the cylinder is frozen and if the bearing if too tight.

[Greynomad]

My money is on a brake shoe dragging at one end. With the wheel turning one way (forward), it is only a slight drag but turning the other way, it might be "self energising" a little and chattering. I'd try using an aerosol can of paint on the inside of the drum(only a light coat), reassemble and test again. Then remove the drum again and check the shoes for signs of paint on them. Sand or file the paint off and a little of the lining till no paint is left on the lining/s.

[Patrick]

You said you have juice [ can't spell hydraulic] brakes so I'm also thinking the 'groan' is from a brake shoe. Why not remove the drum and taper the top of the secondary shoe and bottom of the primary. [ It wouldn't hurt to taper all 4 ends]. When reinstalling the drum make sure to correctly adjust the wheel bearings.

[tbirdtbird]

I saw snaggles' hydraulic set up a few yrs ago. They are setup as self-energizing, but both shoe linings are the same length. Maybe someone can clarify....last i was aware if self-energizing, then the front shoe lining was to be shorter.....at least that is the only way I have ever seen it, 1000 cars later....

[Patrick]

I saw snaggles' hydraulic set up a few yrs ago. They are setup as self-energizing, but both shoe linings are the same length. Maybe someone can clarify....last i was aware if self-energizing, then the front shoe lining was to be shorter.....at least that is the only way I have ever seen it, 1000 cars later....

Over the decades I've seen quite a few where the primary [short] shoes were on one side of car while the secondary [long] shoes were on the other side. That would make the shoes the same length on each side, not good. Then again I've also seen the primary and secondary shoes installed incorrectly, primary to the rear and secondary to the front.

[Tom Bellfoy]

I had the same grinding noise along with a slight pulling to the right when applying my brakes. turned out it was a leaking hydraulic wheel cylinder, ruined the brake shoes and created quite a mess to clean up, The car was restored 45 years ago by previous owner, I'm now waiting for new wheel cylinders to arrive today. I know, I know what you're thinking. Should have left the original brakes on. However, my car, my brakes, my choice.

[Mitch]

I had the same grinding noise along with a slight pulling to the right when applying my brakes. turned out it was a leaking hydraulic wheel cylinder, ruined the brake shoes and created quite a mess to clean up, The car was restored 45 years ago by previous owner, I'm now waiting for new wheel cylinders to arrive today. I know, I know what you're thinking. Should have left the original brakes on. However, my car, my brakes, my choice.

I like to use silicone DOT5 in any old car I work on that might not get a lot of use.. I'll flush out the old fluid real good with a power bleeder

[Tom Bellfoy]

I was wondering what type of brake fluid to use, dot 3,4 or 5. There must be a good reason you choose to use silicone dot5 so thats what type I'll put in after I flush it
Thanks
Tom

[Tom Wesenberg]

I also only use DOT 5 silicone fluid on my old cars with hydraulic brakes.

Whether the front of rear shoe is primary depends on where the brake shoe anchor pin is located. Most vehicles have it at the top, so the forward shoe is the shorter primary shoe, but I worked on an IH pickup where the rear shoe was the primary shoe, and the anchor pin was at the bottom.

[Snagglewhen]

Old thread (Got busy and forgot to update. Life has a funny way of doing that), but to close it out the issue here worked itself out while driving the car. The cylinder and bearing turned out to be fine. I believe that the issue was that the brake shoe needed to re-arc itself back to the drum, which it did over a few drives.