No announcement yet.

Got frame back from blasting...Not good news

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Got frame back from blasting...Not good news

    As you can see from the photos below I'm probably going to need a new front crossmember so keep your eyes open. All of the pictures are from the front mount each a different area.
    You do not have permission to view this gallery.
    This gallery has 7 photos.

  • #2
    Mine was very similar, maybe far worse.

    I knew the former original owner who had four (4) sons, (2) still living), who rode on brutal mud roads in rough farm fields with my present Model A Coupe loaded with field farm workers and crossed unprepared railroad crossing maybe minimum (6) times a day, with RR tracks at least 6" high. The added box in the back was overloaded often with heavy items, dirt fill, and field hands.

    My 1958 acquired $25.00, 1930 Model A Coupe had no doubt taken a most severe unimaginable brutal beating.

    After purchase, I far more carefully drove it with these same front cross member cracks and missing rivets for 38 years with no problems on both paved roads, and while hunting on muddy roads.

    About 23 years ago, I took a cold chisel and removed all front cross member rivets and used a Dremmel tool to cut vees above and below all steel cracks, followed by welding all vee joints and grinding same smooth.

    Next I re-riveted the cross member with all new rivets after making a rivet back-up device to back up all difficult to back up rivets.

    From actual hands on "experience", (and not just Model A Forum guessing), after riding 23 years with a former well cracked, half riveted front member with no problems, I have no fear of riding with a newly welded, fully riveted prior cracked cross member.

    On the other hand, there is absolutely nothing wrong with acquiring and installing a better used front cross member, or maybe a new front cross member, or welding yours, and riveting yours, as is in place. (Just easier to grind welds when removed).

    We will never ever encounter these horrible 1930 brutal pot hole laden roads and high rail railroad crossings again.

    Just sincerely hope this helps.
    Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 03-19-2019, 04:42 PM.


    • Mitch
      Mitch commented
      Editing a comment
      “We will never ever encounter these horrible 1930 brutal pot hole laden roads”

      Are you sure about that Henry. Come north this time of year after the salt and brine as taken its toll all winter. We have some real landmines

  • #3
    Still repairable.
    Much like the firewall, this too, can be overcome. .
    Twiss Collector Car Parts


    • #4
      My front cross member had a wicked crack in it that I thought was a game changer. I contracted with a welder service who came to my house and proceeded to dig out the crack (almost) and proceeded to weld it back in full. That section of my cross member is now stronger than the remainder of the cross member. Mine is fixed. I believe that yours can be repair welded also. This is my two cents.


      • #5
        It is a hell of a lot of work to rivet in a new crossmember. They all look like yours, in fact yours looks better than most . If that were in our shop we would have it welded up in an hr

        Remember in the early days these cars were beat to death on horrible roads, and had very inadequate shocks, although I admit they were the best available at the time.

        In reality, lever action Houdaille style shocks are not much better than none, when you compare to the performance of tube shocks. I am aware there are ppl who will disagree with me.

        However, if Houdaille style were so good, they would still be making them and using them today

        If you are fine point, you have no choice, and you prolly do not tour with your car anyway, so in that case the Houdaille are fine
        Last edited by tbirdtbird; 03-19-2019, 05:07 PM.


        • #6
          Drill holes at the ends of those cracks. This will stop them from spreading further, then weld that sucker up. Fix up the rivets and your done. Easy Peasy
          4~ Tudor's
          1~ Coupe

          Henry Ford said,
          "It's all nuts and bolts"

          Mitch's Auto Service ctr


          • #7
            Can I weld this with my MIG welder? I also have 115V arc welder.


            • JDupuis
              JDupuis commented
              Editing a comment
              Don't use the 115v arc welder.
              It won't give the penetration into the metal that you need.

          • #8
            This is just another opinion for what it's worth but what has been said by all those above seems to make sense, why not remove, grind and reweld and grind again. Do all of these areas need rivets or could some be replaced by bolts if this is a driver?
            “If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.” (Will Rogers).


            • Mickey
              Mickey commented
              Editing a comment
              I thought about the same thing. It is definitely a driver. I'll give the rivets a shot but maybe fall back to bolts as long as the head does not interfere with anything.

          • #9
            Mickey ck out this picture of counter sunk heads and the whole thread in general.
            4~ Tudor's
            1~ Coupe

            Henry Ford said,
            "It's all nuts and bolts"

            Mitch's Auto Service ctr


            • #10

              A. I first removed all the front cross member rivets easily (23) years ago, by hitting and shearing them off horizontally with a sharp cold chisel and punching them out with a slightly smaller diameter flat head punch.

              B. After cutting in vee cuts, I welded mine with my Harbor Freight 120 V MIG wire welder and ground the welds smooth.

              C. Because former riveting enlarges the original frame rivet holes, I bored out the existing enlarged rivet holes a little larger and installed slightly larger rivets using Bratton's hand held riveting tools.

              D. Re- riveting the front cross member is not at all that difficult ...... I have no idea how Ford accomplished this task ............. however, 100% of repeating this unique Model A trick for re-riveting a Model A front cross member like that of 90 years ago, is in taking one's time, thinking, and being able to design and make a functional metal front cross member rivet back up tool.

              E. Appears many don't have the patience to stop and think so they resort to using bolts when replacing a front cross member like the person who restored my 1930 Town Sedan maybe about 45 years ago.


              • H. L. Chauvin
                H. L. Chauvin commented
                Editing a comment
                Just a repeat of my reply #17 in Mitch's illustrated thread in above reply #9. LOL

            • #11
              Originally posted by JDupuis View Post
              Don't use the 115v arc welder.
              MIG is the currently preferred technology unless you are pipeline welding in the middle of Alaska.
              Vee out the cracks to get good penetration


              • #12
                You are probably very lucky that no previous owner tried to repair this. From what we have seen you do so far , it will turn out great. Jim.


                • #13
                  Wire it Mickey, Rivets are better than bolts when done properly, Any old riveters here with good tips I always heated the rivet first put it in heated again and riveted with air hammer make sure you have a good bucking bar as well the rivet shank will expand and fill and tighten up the holes. On that front make sure you can get to all the rivets good, also make sure none of the rivet holes are elongated.


                  • #14
                    OK I'll give it a shot.
                    Couple of questions. What size wire? I assume .035 or .040? I have an air hammer for rivets and a selection of rivets but what's best for getting in there to do the V cuts?


                    • #15
                      Angle grinder
                      Air grinder/ dremel with the deburring grinder bit.
                      Twiss Collector Car Parts


                      • #16
                        .035 or .040 is way too big unless you have a 400 amp MIG behind it, your penetration will be minimal
                        Use .023, .025, or .030. The wire size for us car guys is not dependent on the thickness of the metal we are welding, it is dependent on the capability of your machine. You can weld 3/8 steel plate with .025 if it has been properly Veed out. It may take an extra pass or two, but you will have good penetration, else the weld just sits on top of the metal.

                        I'd be using my .023 wire on that, I use it for everything, even structural projects

                        I have seen some UTubes of welding instructions and some of them were done by pretty terrible 'welders', so be careful there.
                        Welding is one of those things where if it looks good it is good.

                        PS you should be running 12-15 psi for your gas, more like 25 if in windy conditions
                        Last edited by tbirdtbird; 03-20-2019, 09:17 AM.


                        • #17
                          Looks about like mine. Definately repairable. Rod
                          "Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good." Thomas Sowell


                          • #18
                            Many high schools and vocational schools offer night classes in welding, I would strongly encourage every vintage car owner to take such a course. There isn't a single day that goes by that we are not welding/repairing/fabbing something in the shop

                            You will learn some novel uses of the welder. As Mitch can testify, if we need to remove a bearing race (these are normally pressed in for assembly) from a modern car, once the bearing itself has been removed, we run a bead of weld around the inside of the race. Since heating metal actually shrinks it, once the weld has cooled, the race just falls right out of the car. Otherwise, it is a lot of work to remove them. This is just one example.
                            You can fab your own special tools, such as the offset 11/16 socket welded to a 3" extension (1/2" drive) that we made to get at the nut on #8 stud on an A (the one under the dizzy). We have done this in several sizes for several different cars we have worked on. If you use the same fabbed socket on all your studs, then the torque will be the same for all of them


                            • #19
                              Thanks tbird that is very helpful. I was thinking heavy metal needed heavy wire. My machine is a Lincoln 140amp.


                              • #20
                                Looks like the manual shows your welder drive roller is for .025 gas or .035 inner shield.



                                • #21
                                  He can run .023 wire in there, I do


                                  • #22
                                    Yes it will run .023. I ran it from that broken spool until it jammed up.
                                    The spool not the machine.


                                    • #23
                                      Mickey, here is a pic of the 3 grinders welders love the most
                                      1) air die grinder. We run either 1/4 or 3/8 or 1/2" rounded bits. We get them from McMaster Carr, who calls them "burrs". Get the double cut carbides. The single cut non-carbide will be dull in less than a week. The double cut carbides last for years
                                      2) right angle air grinder fitted for 3" Roloc grinding discs. Most popular grits are 50, and 24
                                      3) 4" right angle electric grinder fitted with a flap disc, these flap jobs are the greatest and can really take off some material.
                                      Sorry, for some reason the DeWalt 4" right angle grinder is truncated in the pic, but you get the idea

                                      So, you can Vee-out with these tools or grind welds smooth

                                      grinders for welding.jpg
                                      Last edited by tbirdtbird; 03-20-2019, 11:23 PM.


                                      • #24
                                        OK, here is a better pic, I hope



                                        • #25
                                          Thanks tbird for the pictures. I have a couple of air tools but need to get some burrs and sanding disks.


                                          Related Topics


                                          • Sunnybrook Farm
                                            Broken front cross member
                                            by Sunnybrook Farm
                                            This front cross member has a chunk of metal cracked out (I have the pieces) and other cracks that will eventually break the rest of the top out.
                                            Not sure if all of that can be welded back in place as it seems to be cracked in several directions. What causes that damage? Is the whole thing not clamped down tight enough, I don't want to repeat the problem after I fix it. No other damage to the...
                                            You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                                            This gallery has 1 photos.
                                            12-18-2017, 09:28 AM
                                          • dmaxweb
                                            Front Cross Member Repair
                                            by dmaxweb
                                            I taking care of some things while my engine is out for rebuilding. There was no brass front engine support bushing and the yoke was wearing on the hole in the cross member. As a result more than half of the yoke stud has worn away and the hole in the cross member is wallowed out. I have a perfect original yoke so that's not a problem. Can the cross member be built up with weld or a small cresent...
                                            10-04-2021, 12:41 PM
                                          • Tom Bellfoy
                                            installing new front float-a-motor
                                            by Tom Bellfoy
                                            Tuesday I will be installing new front and rear float-a-motor mounts in my model A truck. It would appear that most owners install just the rear mounts, however I purchased both front and rear sets with plans to install both sets. Motor is already installed with the steel mounts.
                                            Has anyone here ever installed the front mounts and if so how high would the motor have to be raised in order to...
                                            06-18-2017, 06:17 PM
                                          • Tree grower
                                            Front cross member and radiator
                                            by Tree grower
                                            In follow-up to my previous post, I removed the rad--again-- and studied service bulletin p. 387. I understand that multiple shims and pads under the cowl will square up the hood fit, but I would rather alter the initial rad position if reasonable. To avoid removing the 28/29 X and installing a correct 30/31, can I carefully cut out the raised mounting surface on the X, as seen in the photos, and...
                                            02-03-2022, 03:00 PM
                                          • Rob Doe
                                            Float A Motor engine mounts / vibration level reduction
                                            by Rob Doe
                                            I've been reviewing engine mount threads. I have FAM's. I checked my doughnuts (top ones) and found them to be easily moved by hand on both sides of the car. I started by adjusting them to Mike K's two full turns on the left and 3/4 on the right, from just hard to move. Got some improvement, but decided to try the 1/8 inch crush on left and 3/4 on right. Then tried 1/8 on both sides after noticing...
                                            07-21-2021, 06:46 PM
                                          • Jerry Kzoo
                                            Brake Cross Shaft Hitting U-joint
                                            by Jerry Kzoo
                                            I was helping a friend work on his Roadster and the brake pedal only traveled 1/3 or the way before it hit something. We found out the cross shaft hit the U-joint. We will put on new rubber pads for the rear motor mount. it looks like the front motor mount might be up too high as there is no spring under the cross member. It has the 2 springs connected by a heavy wire piece up on top of the cross...
                                            02-15-2021, 07:50 AM
                                          • DaWizard
                                            by DaWizard
                                            Hey Bill, you awake yet?

                                            I am wondering, yesterday I installed the FaM from Bratton's, the ductile steel one, and noticed that the far rear mount has an barely interference fit to the cross member.

                                            Dig into your FaM memory and tell me about how much weight, if any, should be on the cross member?

                                            I have the ability to make a spacer thick enough to make the friction
                                            10-15-2017, 09:10 AM
                                          • pAAt
                                            AA solid engine mount front crossmember
                                            by pAAt
                                            I was wondering if anyone had a picture of the AA solid engine mount front crossmember or a site that has them ? I thought mine had been cut down, but it seems the whole thing was replaced at some time. I need to get a good solid mount for my AA, are they the same as the A ? Seems to be heavier gage steel, but I'm not sure. Pat
                                            04-27-2018, 04:20 PM
                                          • wensum
                                            Tie rod clashing with front cross member
                                            by wensum
                                            Our speedster has a '33-'34 front axle giving a 1.5" drop. Everything else is standard. When on full lock or close to full lock, the tie rod rubs on the front cross member and at times feels as though its sticking or dragging there.
                                            Also when we hit an abrupt bump, the tie rod taps the underside of the chassis.
                                            If I bend the steering arms down to stop it tapping the chassis, it will...
                                            01-26-2021, 08:08 PM
                                          • Big guy
                                            Motor Mounts?
                                            by Big guy
                                            It may be fundamental but...without any symptoms or problems with the engine or performance, my hand crank no longer lines up with the crank pulley. The pulley is now lower. I can't see any issues with the mounts. What am I missing?...
                                            05-11-2020, 06:26 PM