Gas Tank Rust Removal

[CSPIDY]

Finally got around to addressing the rust in the gas tank of my 28 Tudor.
the plan is to remove it, fill it with 10 gallons of Evaporust, clean with Por-15 cleaner degreaser, then prep with the Por-15 metal prep, followed with Por-15 paint coating.
what are your thoughts? I have heard good reports on the Por-15 paint but have some reservations using an internal coating.
any advise on removing the tank would be greatly appreciated. We did manage to get a good helper for this job.

[H. L. Chauvin]

POR 15 has a new gas tank sealer for under $20.00 if one searches on Ebay.

Many "Reviews" indicate it is a wonderful product which can even seal tiny holes in gas tanks.

One problem with any sealer/coating anywhere on any surface .... and especially inside a Model A fuel tank ..... is harmful Moisture.

It is always recommended to rinse POR 15 MC with water which leads to wet surfaces inside a gas tank.

Next is how to dry the inside of a Model A gas tank with internal metal baffles.

Remember when temperatures drop at night, metal gets cooler. The following morning, warmer moist air can condense on cooler metal like going out of doors with a cup full of ice ..... outside of cup gets wet ...... does not happen with outside of cup with a warm cup of coffee. Keeping a dry tank "indoors" prior to coating might help.

Lots of these other former gas tank sealers from a few years ago were dissolved with our newly added corn fuel after alcohol was added to fuel ......... one I "experienced" 12 years ago, was when I bought my 1930 Town Sedan, which was in storage for 30 years.

A former owner followed providing a recommended "Permatex Witch Brew" gas tank sealer mixed with alcohol from a 1970's MAFC Restorer magazine.

This sealer became a total disaster when I added new alcohol fuel about 12 years ago.

Like anything with any coatings, surface preparation is most important.

I definitely would never hesitate to call the 1-800 POR technicians to inquire what "exactly" is recommended and most importantly to discuss your tank preparation details.

Hope this helps.

[CSPIDY]

Very good advise HL, my garage is heated but only when I’m working in it. Perhaps a 60 wat light bulb in it overnight will work.

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

From reading on the forum and other places on line, it is impossible to see if you done a proper job without removing the Tank and splitting it open. Baffles are in the way.

[CSPIDY]

I do have access to a high quality borescope, not sure it will be conclusive but will take a look before I coat. As I said not 100 % sure I will coat at this time.

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

I have tried a inexpensive borescope, maybe you will be able to see behind the baffles, I was not able to. I was able to see some of it through the filler hole, and the shutoff hole. If you have not see the inside of a tank before, somewhere on this site there are pictures that show the tank removed and split. Shows the positions of the baffles. The pictures might give you a better indication of what you are up against. I believe there are also other strings/posts. If Brent has posted here about the subject you will get some really good info. He is pretty insistent if you want a rust free/sealed trouble free/repaired gas tank the only way to do it is to remove and split the tank. Others may have been successful doing theirs, its your choice.

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

Hi Me again, found the string

https://www.vintagefordforum.com/forum/model-a/58450-after-you-get-it-clean

[CSPIDY]

Good stuff, looks like there is no way to see the left and right cambers even with a good borescope.

[Beauford]

10 gallons of Evapo will cost too much!!! Rust911 concentrate makes 16 gallons!!

[pAAt]

$59.50 with free shipping on Amazon

[CSPIDY]

I read the reports on each and decided Evaporust is worth the extra money. I do appreciate the advise and feel that Rust911 is a good product. Thanks

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

Look into Thermocure, I think it is basically just concentrated Evaporust, and is added to water for dilution. If it is saves shipping, and I believe cost is less. I used thermocure for flushing my cooling system, worked well. Research it as a possible alternative.

[tbirdtbird]

I would personally not want to coat the inside of any tank with anything. Given the baffles, you have no way to know just what happened inside, and later if the coating peels off, you are in deep trouble.

I am also not convinced there are any products out there which will stand up to gasahol. There may be such a product, but I would like to see the results of some independent longevity testing, and not just company literature

JMO

[H. L. Chauvin]

FWIW: I never experimented with the application of any newly advertised gas tank sealer in a rusty and dirty Model A gas tank with baffles.

If I wanted to try to seal a Model A gas tank , I would at the very minimum first buy the sealer in advance of the application, and next, after providing the sealer company's recommended metal preparation, apply this sealer to a piece of metal similar to the gas tank's prepared similar metal, and place this newly sealed piece of metal in a capped small Mason glass jar of gasohol.

After 36 hours I would shake the jar several times a day, every day, for about 3 weeks to see what happens to this piece of prepared rusty metal before trying to seal a Model A gas tank.

If one misinterprets the sealer company's instructions, or is not 100% positively informed exactly how to proceed, it is always best to mess up with an actual hands on experiment prior to the final application.

One past "experience" with removing a failing Model A gas tank sealer, (Permatex/Alcohol), that someone else applied is difficult to forget. This sealer began to dissolve with new modern gasohol and later formed a thick, hard black coating in the carburetor and intake manifold.

The particles of this old vintage peeling tank sealer were also clogging the gas shut off valve, fuel line, and carburetor jets.

Life really can be so simple ....... makes sense to date a girl prior to making a lifetime commitment in marriage ...... appears a messed up divorce can be far worse than removing a messed up sealer in a Model A gas tank.

On the other hand, do not be afraid of dating. LOL

[CSPIDY]

I will be adding the test to the process, thanks.

[JDupuis]

I love the picture of your helper.
Bill W. aka Dad will make sure Buster T sees that picture! . Jeff

[CSPIDY]

His name is Maxx and has brought much joy to the household. God, Family, Dogs/Cats, Cars in that order.

[Mitch]

Maxx matches the interior perfectly

[H. L. Chauvin]

In the past, Ministers often advised who they think will gain Heaven; and furthermore I never ever heard where any donation from a bank robber was ever refused by a Minister.

Appears even though most of us definitely know our loyal, loving house pet dogs follow God's (10) Commandments far better than most Humans, dogs in Heaven are rarely mentioned by any church Ministers.

I could be wrong, but I think if about 1/3 of any church congregation would train their loyal dogs to bring $100.00 in an envelope to the Minister during service, more sermons would begin to become dog friendly.

FWIW: I never saw it written where good dogs are not allowed to accompany good dog owners in Heaven ..... something to think about when our loyal dogs look up to us.

[CSPIDY]

I read some where that the model A tank can not be welded, is this a myth?

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

I am not sure, I do know that Brent splits them where they are welded together, and then puts them back together, I assume he welds the two parts together, but do not know for sure. The danger as you are probably aware, is an explosion if there are any traces of gas and or gas vapors present when welding on an enclosed tank. Same issue if using an abrasive tool that may cause a spark.

[Mitch]

They can be welded
there is some information about sealing and so forth in this tech thread.

https://www.vintagefordforum.com/forum/model-a/technical-reference/4481-fuel-system-basics-and-filtering-options

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

Look at post 12 in Mitch's link

[Mitch]

If you hover and click the #12 it can be linked to directly like this

https://www.vintagefordforum.com/forum/model-a/technical-reference/4481-fuel-system-basics-and-filtering-options?p=46525#post46525

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

As an FYI, not sure if this has been covered in this string including the links. Tanks that have previously been coated present a challenge. If there is rust, even if just pinholes in the sealer, all the old sealer should be stripped/removed. Rust will creep in behind the sealer, therefore the sealer has to be removed to remove/treat the rust, and then resealed before the rust (flash rust) process can start again. Rust 911, evaporust, thermocure is non caustic, and only works/removes rust, these products do not remove sealer. So even if you remove all the rust it can get at, there is most likely rust lurking behind old sealer.

[Mitch]

Post #14 mentions some of that

https://www.vintagefordforum.com/forum/model-a/technical-reference/4481-fuel-system-basics-and-filtering-options?p=46630#post46630

[CSPIDY]

Removed the tank and boy the Les Andrews Red book was a big help.
I found a shop (Moyers) that cuts the tank open, they cut three square holes on the firewall side of the tank then will blast the inside and weld it back up. they will also remove the steering column bracket and make any necessary repairs. They seem to know the Model A tank issues and say they have done a lot of them. this will be some what pricy but if it would be the best method why not? they seal the inside with a coating called Renu.
I spoke with my old timer and he said that even the worst case tank he ever had he was able to get it cleaned up at a radiator shop by boiling and then they would put something inside to protect the metal from rusting. I will be speaking with the radiator shop he mentioned to find out what they coat the inside with. (this is considerably less money)

[CSPIDY]

Wow, I visited the other forum and found a thread where Brent in 10-U-C details the pitfalls of all the home remedies including all the options that I am considering. The biggest problem is not the rust it’s the original coating that was applied when the tank was new. This must be removed or the problem will persist. His method is thorough.
good thing this is not my daily driver.

[Mitch]

We have some of that info in this tech thread

https://www.vintagefordforum.com/forum/model-a/technical-reference/4481-fuel-system-basics-and-filtering-options

[CSPIDY]

I did see this earlier but it didn’t sink in. Sorry I can be a little slow at comprehension.

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

No worries, there is a lot to comprehend, sometimes seeing pictures of the problem says it all. Simply describing it like in post 11 above does not convey what can be shown in pictures.
All you can do is keep asking, researching until things click in your head.

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

Love your saying about "wise Man" used to use it at work, Supervisors/bosses did not appreciate me using it when they were looking at me for explanations. Used it when people kept pressing me for answer and I did not know the answer - would tell them "I don't know what I don't know. After a while they caught on that when I said "I don't know" that I was serious and I had no clue how to answer their question, or how to get to an answer.

[CSPIDY]

Believe me I keep reminding myself of this fact

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hmmmm ..... Ever get asked by a youngster, for example something like what is the name of a Model A special tool?

A. I think most of us will agree that there is no doubt that we don't know what we don't know; and,

B. We definitely do know what we do know; however, what confuses youngsters is,

C. We seniors do know what we do know, but we seniors cannot always "remember" what we do know ....... might take some time to remember the name of that darn tool !!!!!!

[CSPIDY]

Whachamacallit

[CSPIDY]

sent a PM and an email to Brent in 10-uh-c, considering having him do my tank but I have not had any response. in a couple days now. any thoughts?

[Mitch]

PM sent

[CSPIDY]

I have decided to have Moyer’s cut open the tank and blast the inside provided they will treat the inside with a Ospho prior to applying primer and sealer. I took some pictures prior to have the tank cleaned.
I will try to have pictures of the process as it progresses.

[Mitch]

Looking forward to the process. This place does the 3 holes correct?

[CSPIDY]

Yes, three holes

[DaWizard]

I agree, that is a lot of rust.

[CSPIDY]

Looks like someone has done some sealing in there

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

As long as you are doing this, perhaps convert the steering column support from the gas tank to the dash support style. If not familiar with this you can do a search here on the VFF. It is not difficult.

[CSPIDY]

As long as you are doing this, perhaps convert the steering column support from the gas tank to the dash support style. If not familiar with this you can do a search here on the VFF. It is not difficult.

The tank repair shop will be removing the current support, inspecting and repairing any cracks, then reinstalling. adding the second support is a very good idea. I have done the research and this would be the time to do it.

[CSPIDY]

After I first removed the tank from the car
I looked down into the filler neck and thought that there was an old dryed up piece of dog poop.
Turns out it was the gas gauge float that didn’t float any more.
I purchased a gas gauge tool from Mikes A fordable and removed it. (A prerequisite for getting tank repaired).
Amazingly it all disassembled with just a little PB blaster and old fashioned elbow grease.
The gauge arm is rusted.
The plan is to soak the arm in Evaporust, clean up the other parts and assemble with a new float and seals.

[CSPIDY]

Moyers finnally opened the tank today, as you can see the rust is plentiful, notice the pile next to the cut out. That was dumped out of the tank. It is incredible how much metal thickness remains after all the rust.


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[H. L. Chauvin]

Thanks for taking time to share these photos.

[1930 Closed Cab PU]

What did you decide you are using for primer/sealer? Thanks for posting the pictures.

[CSPIDY]

Moyers has a coating they use. Its a thick red compound that needs to be baked solidify that never gets rock hard. I will post more as the process proceeds.

[Brian in Wheeling]

Use this:
Red Kote. Works the bomb. See it at " Damnq.com"
No connection to co. Used it for years and never any problems.
Brian

[CSPIDY]

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As part art of the rust clean up, I bead blasted the carb bowl then soaked it in Evaporust for two days. The second picture is from last September when I first looked into my rusty situation. The carb was working fine so for now I’m just cleaning and using new seals.

[CSPIDY]

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The blasting is complete, cutout is welded back in place and reddy for coating. They did a splendid job.

[Mitch]

The blasting is complete, cutout is welded back in place and reddy for coating. They did a splendid job.

Wow that looks like a real nice job. Thanks for taking the time to share the photos of the process. What are they using for sealer?
I'm posting a link to their site for others

http://www.gas-tank.com/

[CSPIDY]

Wow that looks like a real nice job. Thanks for taking the time to share the photos of the process. What are they using for sealer?
I'm posting a link to their site for others
http://www.gas-tank.com/

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The product name is “RENU” Moyer’s Gas Tank Renu, located 2011 Western Ave. Greensburg PA 15601 724-836-4680 ask for Jim Prinkey www.gas-tank.com