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  • Dismantling rear brakes to replace linings

    I’m pulling my rear brakes apart so I can replace the brake linings, and have run up against two issues that have stopped me.
    1. One of the castellated nuts in the grease baffle is not turning on the stud, but is turning the stud with it (I’m presuming it’s a stud, or is there a bolt head behind there?). I’ve soaked it with WD40 but don’t really expect that to make a difference because it won’t stop the stud from being able to turn.
    2. Meanwhile, on the other side, I’ve got the grease baffle off and am trying to remove the toggle shaft. I have removed the bolt from the emergency brake lever behind the backing plate, but can’t get any movement of the lever to slide it off the toggle shaft.

    Any advice appreciated. I hope I’ve made myself clear above. I’m referring to Les Andrew diagrams (Red book, 1-40) to name all these bits. Thanks.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Hoogah; 07-29-2018, 06:23 AM.

  • #2
    You will have to hold that stud on the other side to keep it from turning, i may be incorrect but those studs should go thru the other way because the grease retainer keeps them from turning so the nuts are on the back side of the backing plate. on the emergency brake arm if you have removed the bolt just tap the shaft out if it is disconnected from the emergency brake rod itself also is the emergency brake lever missing the return springs? On another look i see the spring.
    Last edited by BNCHIEF; 07-29-2018, 07:00 AM.

    Comment


    • Hoogah
      Hoogah commented
      Editing a comment
      Not sure I understand what you mean here, Chief. Do you want to have another go? :-)

    • BNCHIEF
      BNCHIEF commented
      Editing a comment
      Hoogah sorry yes hold the nut on the other side my bad i was thinking of an early ford v8 axle i worked on sorry the light in my brain finally came on, your bolts are in right and Mitch is spot on with his advice.

  • #3
    Does the parking brake shaft turn OK inside the mounting sleeve?
    If not, then you'll need to use heat and a press to push it out.
    Either way, first you need to remove the arm and key so the shaft will come out.

    Comment


    • BNCHIEF
      BNCHIEF commented
      Editing a comment
      x2 with what Tom said.

    • Hoogah
      Hoogah commented
      Editing a comment
      I’m looking at Les Andrews diagram (red book, p.1-40). Parking brake shaft = toggle shaft? Is the mounting sleeve an unlabelled part attached to the rear of the emergency brake carrier? If YES to both, I think it is free to move (otherwise this brake would be frozen, and it’s not). Removing the emergency brake arm (and key) is the problem I asked about in my 2nd point - i.e. how to remove!
      I’m back where I started! Yikes! Please be gentle with me!

  • #4
    Originally posted by Hoogah View Post
    I’ve soaked it with WD40 but don’t really expect that to make a difference because it won’t stop the stud from being able to turn.
    While it may not make a difference in this instance, WD40 is the wrong product for loosening stuck nuts and bolts. It is not a penetrating rust dissolving oil. You need to use PB Blaster or a similar product. There are other brands that members here will recommend. Good luck with your brake job.

    Comment


    • Hoogah
      Hoogah commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for the tip. Will add to my stock of spray cans!

  • #5
    You’ll need to hold the bolt on the back side as Chief mentioned to remove the nut. Now i’ll Tell you what I would do instead of fighting the disassembly on the car. You can save time and frustration by just removing the backing plate as an assembly with a few extra steps.
    1. Remove the front radius rod bolt at the trans. But a drift back in the hole where the bolt was to hold it up in place
    2. Disconnect the brake rods from the cross shafts...2 cotter-pins
    3. Remove the bolt holding the brake rod return springs to the radius rod
    4. Remove the 4 backing plate nuts and use a punch to tap them completely out. NOTE. The two that go through the radius rod are longer.
    5. Remove the the radius rod
    6. Remove the backing plate assy with the brake rods attached
    7. Now do your disassembling on the bench
    Sometimes doing a couple of extra easy maneuvers will save you hours of aggravation.
    Just another option so proceed as you see fit
    3 ~ Tudor's
    Henry Ford said
    "It's all nuts and bolts"


    Mitch's Auto Service ctr

    Comment


    • DaWizard
      DaWizard commented
      Editing a comment
      X2

    • Hoogah
      Hoogah commented
      Editing a comment
      Thinking outside the box! Will go and have another look at this, Mitch. Thanks.

  • #6
    If you take a look at your first picture posted, you will see the head of the bolts, not studs, that hold the backing plate on, When I did mine,, I had the radius arms off and the clevis pins out, which allows you to move the service brake arm forward enough to get the parking brake pivot arm off IF you need to do it while on the axle. I suggest like Mitch said, if you remove the backing plate intact, you can do all the work on the bench with less back breaking positions. It only takes 5 bolts and 2 clevis pins to remove the backing plate complete. There should also be a return spring wrapped around the outside end of the parking brake pivot arm, and that picture doesn't show you have one.

    I do hope this helps, and maybe Randy can speak up if he is looking on.

    BTW, it is a lot easier to get that return spring on while on the bench, from my experiences.
    You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

    Comment


    • Mitch
      Mitch commented
      Editing a comment
      Amen
      Plus you'll save having to buy a box of ban aides

  • #7
    The front backing plates have the nuts facing inward, towards the center of the car, but the rears have the nuts facing outwards, so your's are correct.
    Bert's has a good exploded view on page 152 of their 2018 parts catalog. Mitch also has several good exploded views here.

    Comment


    • #8
      To get the brake arm off just use a small chisel and wedge it in that crack. Tap it in with a small hammer. That will expand it slightly and then you can drive the shaft out with a punch.

      Comment


      • #9
        Originally posted by WMWS View Post
        To get the brake arm off just use a small chisel and wedge it in that crack. Tap it in with a small hammer. That will expand it slightly and then you can drive the shaft out with a punch.
        You can't drive it out until you get the arm off and remove the key.

        Comment


        • #10
          Originally posted by WMWS View Post
          To get the brake arm off just use a small chisel and wedge it in that crack. Tap it in with a small hammer. That will expand it slightly and then you can drive the shaft out with a punch.
          As stated yes, and as Bob added you will have to get the key off at some time on the bench or before so you don't lose it. The shaft won't come out until the key is off.
          You need to take the e-brake off before you remove the backing plate assembly. Service brakes can stay on. Force the lever fully forward ( it will still there against the cam)
          The take the backing plate off and snake the arm out of the hole slot where the radius rods meet the axle housing. Piece of cake!

          Larry

          Comment


          • #11
            The arm should come off when you put a wedge in that slot.

            Comment


            • #12
              The arm will come off using the chisel to spread the lever then use the same chisel t knock the key out then the shaft can be driven out .

              Comment


              • #13
                Thanks for your advice, folks. I'm learning!!

                Got the brakes dismantled at all corners of the car this weekend, leading to some more observations and questions.

                I’ve attached pictures of the brake roller tracks from each wheel. From the general look of things, the front brakes (photos 2 & 4) may have had some recent work done (by a previous owner). The tracks are in good shape.

                On the other hand, the rear tracks (photos 1 & 3) show considerable wear. What are my options here? I have no welding gear or skills in this area. The suppliers seem to only sell complete kits at a bit over US$100, which will equate to over AUD$200 landed downunder through our local parts man.

                Photo 5 shows one of the rear wheel setups after I removed the emergency brake carrier plate. Apart from all the dirt (which I have cleaned up), I found that the dust cap was missing from the adjusting wedge. Again, I haven't found these in the sellers' catalogues as a separate item. Is there any other way to replace this other than as part of a whole kit?

                Photo 6 shows a pair of my front brake shoes. One is missing one of the irregular shaped fixed washer/spacers at the end. How are these attached? Can I replace this with a regular loose washer of similar thickness?

                IMG_E7344.JPGIMG_E7347.JPGIMG_E7328.JPGIMG_E7349.JPGIMG_E7324.JPGIMG_E7333.JPG
                Last edited by Hoogah; 08-12-2018, 07:52 AM.

                Comment


                • #14
                  Originally posted by Jwmckenzie
                  Yea, you will have to fix or replace those tracks. The track is available, but they are a bit of a challenge to re-rivet, do able but you may need a few extra pins/rivets to get the job done

                  https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/f...e-roller-track
                  Jon, thanks but that link was for FRONT tracks and I need rear. When I search on that item in catalogue, the only option is a complete kit at $105 as opposed to $19.95 for the front tracks. The rear tracks are quite different.
                  Last edited by Hoogah; 08-12-2018, 07:59 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Jwmckenzie
                    Jwmckenzie commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Yea sorry I am asleep.

                • #15
                  You can rebuild the rear roller tracks by mig welding them up. Then using a dremel with the cut off wheel to size it.
                  Grind smooth.
                  I take the backer plate off, and run over to my buddy's place with a welder.
                  Less then 5 minutes of actual weld time. Add an extra hour for shooting the breeze!
                  Place a copper penny under the ear of the roller track, this will stop the weld from attaching to the backer plate.
                  Good luck. Jeff


                  Twiss Collector Car Parts

                  Comment


                  • #16
                    Originally posted by JDupuis View Post
                    You can rebuild the rear roller tracks by mig welding them up. Then using a dremel with the cut off wheel to size it.
                    Grind smooth.
                    I take the backer plate off, and run over to my buddy's place with a welder.
                    Less then 5 minutes of actual weld time. Add an extra hour for shooting the breeze!
                    Place a copper penny under the ear of the roller track, this will stop the weld from attaching to the backer plate.
                    Good luck. Jeff

                    Thanks, Jeff. So the mig welding is done without removing the roller track assembly from the backing plate, yeah?

                    Comment


                    • JDupuis
                      JDupuis commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Correct.
                      Just leave it attached to the backer plate.

                  • #17
                    RearRollerTrack(BertsCatalogue).pngIMG_E7344_LI.jpg If I go down the mig welding path to restore the rear roller tracks, is the aim to rebuild it to a straight edge (where I have drawn a wobbly blue line), leaving the little curve in the corner (below the blue line)? And what is the correct dimension shown by the arrow? The on-line catalogues don't seem to offer very good photos of this part!

                    Comment


                    • JDupuis
                      JDupuis commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Build it flush to your blue line.
                      With the actuator removed. I believe the measurement is one inch below the spring holder rivets. I use a ruler 1” wide to make the straight line.
                      Double check that 1” measurement before doing the work. I'm going by old (unchecked) information as I type this.

                  • #18
                    Yes, it is 1”, you can leave the actuator in place, just insure that you trim the extra weld off square.
                    Hope this helps. Jeff
                    You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                    This gallery has 1 photos.
                    Twiss Collector Car Parts

                    Comment


                    • Hoogah
                      Hoogah commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Thanks Jeff. Fantastic help!

                  • #19
                    Here is the cap for the adjusting wedge. https://www.brattons.com/brake-adjusting-wedge-cap.html

                    Comment


                    • Hoogah
                      Hoogah commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Thanks, Bob! You're a better searcher than I!

                  • #20
                    D616FC22-7D8D-4F33-B492-AE6E13CFDE26.jpeg I’ve completely removed my rear backing plates (as recommended by several of you) to get the roller tracks mig welded back to straight. I have discovered quite a bit of play in the service brake actuating arms, so must need to renew the cam shaft bushings inside the roller track. To access the bushings, the Les Andrews book says to remove the pin (circled red) and slide the arm off the camshaft, and then the camshaft itself. The pins aren’t responding to my hammer and punch. I’m not sure how hard I can whack this pin, or am I using the wrong technique?

                    While I’m doing this, I’d like to swap over the old style grease nipple/zerk (circled yellow) for a modern one. I’m guessing it’s been there for the past 90 years. I think I’ve read that these are just pressed in? What is the correct removal technique? Getting the grease gun onto this nipple seems to be a problem due to restricted access. Should I go for an angled fitting?

                    Again, thanks!
                    Last edited by Hoogah; 08-19-2018, 08:38 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #21
                      Those pins are a pressed fit and very tight. Grind off the rivet head and drill about 3/4 of the way into it using a smaller diameter bit. Be very careful not to break the drill bit off when doing this. Then take a (pin) punch with a close diameter and drive it out. Supporting the back side on top of a deep socket or such may be helpful when driving it out
                      3 ~ Tudor's
                      Henry Ford said
                      "It's all nuts and bolts"


                      Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                      Comment


                      • Hoogah
                        Hoogah commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Thanks again, Mitch.

                    • #22
                      What if you warm it up a mite, not cherry red, just hot enough that penitrent oil would smoke
                      28 Tudor
                      57 Tbird
                      2kMR2 Spyder
                      62 Willys Pickup

                      Wise man once told me you don’t know what you don’t know

                      Comment


                      • #23
                        Just remember that your brake levers are not the same.
                        Keep them separated with “left” and “right” designations. Same with your parking brakes.
                        Hope this helps. Jeff
                        Twiss Collector Car Parts

                        Comment


                        • Hoogah
                          Hoogah commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Thanks Jeff.

                      • #24
                        Just asking again, as I didn't get any responses to this: While I’m doing this, I’d like to swap over the old style grease nipple/zerk (circled yellow in Post #20) for a modern one. I’m guessing it’s been there for the past 90 years. I think I’ve read that these are just pressed in? What is the correct removal technique? Getting the grease gun onto this nipple seems to be a problem due to restricted access. Should I go for an angled fitting?

                        AND
                        Are there really two bushings (end to end) inside the service brake camshaft bracket, as appears to be shown in the Brattons exploded view of the rear brakes? Is that to allow for grease to access the camshaft? Are they inserted one from each end? (Sorry this is such a basic question. Just a novice trying to figure stuff out!)
                        RearBrakeAssembly-ExplodedDiagram-CamshaftBracket(Brattons)_LI.jpg

                        Comment


                        • #25
                          Yes, you can swap out the fittings. Since I don't know if they are pressed in, I would think about the fitting. If it has a hex base, I would try unscrewing it first, if it does not have a hex base, trying to unscrew it will result in it coming out anyway.

                          There are 2 bushings.
                          You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

                          Comment


                          • Hoogah
                            Hoogah commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Thanks Wiz.

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