Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hydraulic brakes

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hydraulic brakes

    Has anyone had any experience with MT Bowling brothers brake kits? I drive my car at a steady 55mph, it is very comfortable at that speed and straight as an arrow with the radial tires. I feel that I am out running my brake system. Part of it is age related. When changing from my modern with a very soft pedal to the model A it takes quit some time to mentally adjust Bottom line I just am not comfortable and can not fully relax.

  • #2
    Didn't try that specific kit, but I did install S-10 disk brakes on the front of my CCPU, along with Camero rear drums. These disks are on the model A front spindles, which most people think are too weak, but have worked out great. It stops on a dime, with little pedal pressure. I used the S-10 master, with no booster. Couldn't be happier, in fact I am plannng to do the same thing on Elvira when I go to an OD and open driveline on her.
    Last edited by Corley; 06-09-2018, 08:47 PM.
    CB the Wonderful

    Comment


    • carolinamudwalker
      carolinamudwalker commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for the response, Did you have any guide lines or just worked it out on your own? Is there anything on line that you know of that I can research?

  • #3
    Ya know, I was temped to say something strange, but instead I will just say this.

    There is no need to change the brakes since the A was designed to stop from 45mph very well. Now using radials does increase the contact patch of the tire, so maybe you can still stop at 50mph. But to be honest, I can't see the brakes being dependable at 55mph for the simple fact, the car was not really made to sustain that speed, since the majority of roads in the '30s and '40s weren't capable of sustaining 55mph.

    What I would rather see you do is use the A for what it was meant to be, a "cruiser", slowing down to under 50mph even though the traffic is running in the mid to upper 80s, there is no reason you should need to drive faster than you can safely stop.

    Let go of that seat cushion and relax in the car!

    My 2¢
    You wana look waaay far up da road and plan yer route because the brakes are far more of a suggestion than a command!

    Comment


    • carolinamudwalker
      carolinamudwalker commented
      Editing a comment
      Wiz, I understand where you are coming from and I do appreciate your input. It has been 5 years and over $3000 working on these brakes. I am going to spread out all the new brake parts @ take a picture. Everything you can think of from the peddle to the drum has been replaced, many parts more than once. Even tried Brattons floaters, teds floaters, you name it, I have tried it. I am convinced that my frame is not straight. The front right brake when adjusted by the book will over heat. I have seen it get to 300 deg & one time 500. I end up backing it off to the point that it is totally ineffective. I am not exactly a dummy, I have built a 45 foot catamaran from scratch with no outside help, cruised the Caribbean for 17 years full time maintaining 2 diesel engines plus all on board systems. I retired in the rank of E-9, you have to be in the top one percent of the Air Force to hold that rank. OK, I feel better now.

  • #4
    In my case, when I wanted to build an AV8 along the lines of Vern Tardells, I was going to do the whole package with 40 to 48 drum brakes, and bought some drums and backing plates from an old hotrodder.

    During the build, I thought if I could be bothered with old brake design purely for looks.

    I saw an old skool roadster almost exactly like I wanted and it had disks on the front.

    I thought it looked quite OK.

    Then I thought , who am I pleasing here, myself with good brakes that can stop me safely from 80 MPH or pleasing the hotodding (purist) who says , nothing else but drum brakes..

    I eventually won out, and am much happier every time I have to brake.

    Comment


    • carolinamudwalker
      carolinamudwalker commented
      Editing a comment
      I also don't want the 40-48 brakes, That is why I was looking at the Bolling Brothers kit, it is all new parts engineered in house. At this point I don't care what other people think I just want it to work. Is it possible to do only the front? Also what did you use as guidance? I put the F-150 transmission in myself and have never been happier.

    • pooch
      pooch commented
      Editing a comment
      Carolina,
      I had a fair idea of engineering when I built my first rod.

      Studied our local guidelines and just went for it.

      My brakes are 4 wheel disc from a donor car, so basically the only engineering brain work I had to do was the design of moving the master cylinder to under floor with the associated Model A pedal and , on the hiboy, fitting a smaller booster so it was not visible from the side.

      I found that a single 7 inch booster did not cut it, and had to fit a dual diaphragm 7 inch.

  • #5
    I wouldn't even consider doing only the fronts, just go juice on all 4 corners. I can slide all 4 at anytime with only moderate pressure. You know, while we don't have any absolutely purists in our club, we do have some guys who are trying very hard to keep it original. Even those guys will come up to me and ask how hard it was to do my front disks/rear drums, and howhI like them, because they "sure would like to stop better", and this is after trying every trick in the book on their rebuilds. With that OD, you probably feel that same safety need. Freeway speed and original brakes are just not a good fit.
    CB the Wonderful

    Comment


    • #6
      I have the Boling Bros Bendix brakes on my Model A Tudor with f 150 OD transmission. I have their brakes on the front and 48 Ford brakes on the rear. The car stops great and has been trouble free for 10 years.

      I liked that setup so well that I used the same thing on my hot rod Roadster. The Bendix brake system is self energizing and gives strong stopping power.

      John

      Comment


      • #7
        John, you are like a breath of fresh air. My big question is, did you use Boling Bros replacement bat. box with the attached master cylinder? Not only self energizing but larger diameter drums and wider shoes. With the F-150 Tranny there does not look like much room for their master cylinder set up. Thanx Bob

        Comment


        • john in illinois
          john in illinois commented
          Editing a comment
          I am not sure if Bolings MC is single circuit or double. I used a battery box made by Dave Delmue in CA. He also made the F150 conversion kit. It is a bolt in box, fits with transmission and comes with the correct size Mustang drum-drum duaL master cylinder. Daves # 408-722-2518. [email protected]

        • dmdeaton
          dmdeaton commented
          Editing a comment
          It comes single, but they have a double on the website. I am using the single, but may upgrade later.

      • #8
        I will give him a call thanks. He did my TX Bob

        Comment


        • #9
          filedata/fetch?id=95657&d=1554816977&type=thumbfiledata/fetch?id=95658&d=1554816978&type=thumb Yes, I am using the Boling bros brake kit. The battery box/master cylinder mount works perfect. It bolts to the stock battery box holes and it even clears my T5 transmission. I am running my rear brake lines different from their suggestions.
          You do not have permission to view this gallery.
          This gallery has 2 photos.

          Comment


          • #10
            Beautiful work, thanks that is the last piece of info that I needed. Did you take a picture with the Tx installed? This trip to Branson & back will be the deciding factor for me. I have the F-150 transmission with the shorter AA bell housing so I may still have clearance problems.
            Last edited by carolinamudwalker; 06-20-2018, 08:02 PM.

            Comment


            • #11
              Are you going to use the S10 rear housing ?

              When I changed my 28 CCPU to a T 5 recently, with a longer gearstick, the throw was excessive.

              I was going to make up a forward linkage, but bought a short throw adapter very cheaply off ebay and temporarily just bent a Model A stick up and around seat .

              Does not look 100% , but it is working great for the time being.

              Comment


              • carolinamudwalker
                carolinamudwalker commented
                Editing a comment
                No plans to change the rear end at this time. I don't know much about the T5 tranny other than it is an open drive

            • #12
              The T5 shifter is at the rear , so it will be behind and under the front of your seat.

              They fit S10 rear housings on and it moves the shifter forward about 8 inches or so.

              Come thru floor more stock looking.

              Comment


              • carolinamudwalker
                carolinamudwalker commented
                Editing a comment
                Pooch, My set up is different than yours. I installed an F150 transmission kit. This comes out of a Ford F150 pick up truck. The shifter only moves back about 1-2 inches.

            • #13
              Arrg sorry Carolina, i got yours mixed up with the earlier post on the T5..

              Comment


              • #14
                I might add my experience with the single master cylinder. The 1 1/16 bore requires too much pedal pressure to stop. The 1" dual cylinder is like power brakes.

                John

                Comment


                • carolinamudwalker
                  carolinamudwalker commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Thanks John, You are helping me from making a mistake. What is the use of going to the trouble and expense of changing to juice brakes if the foot pressure is no better than the mickey mouse mechanicals.

                • dmdeaton
                  dmdeaton commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I will let you know how my single works out. I will change later if needed. I have too many other tasks at the moment to get her on the road.

              • #15
                filedata/fetch?id=96941&d=1554816978&type=thumb
                You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                This gallery has 1 photos.

                Comment


                • #16
                  There is an easier and cheap way to install a master cylinder using stock A parts and a '65 Mustang MC. Too, checking the brake fluid level can be done through a hole in the passenger footwell.
                  You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                  This gallery has 1 photos.
                  Last edited by Denis4x4; 06-28-2018, 10:11 AM.

                  Comment


                  • dmdeaton
                    dmdeaton commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I like this setup. It clears the exhaust ok?

                • #17
                  Here is a follow up photo showing how the cross member cut for the T-5 is reinforced
                  You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                  This gallery has 1 photos.

                  Comment


                  • #18
                    Also using the MT products front and rear on my 32 pickup. Had both styles of early Lockheed and decided it was worth the added expense to stop effectively.

                    Comment


                    • Mitch
                      Mitch commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Welcome hb32 to the VFF!!

                    • pooch
                      pooch commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Welcome hb, we would like to see your 32 pickup.

                    • carolinamudwalker
                      carolinamudwalker commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Thanks for the input on MT products, and yes welcome to the forum.

                  • #19
                    M/T brakes ,quality products, ive put them on 4 cars, they do STOP!

                    Comment


                    • carolinamudwalker
                      carolinamudwalker commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Thanks, I was having trouble finding any feedback good or bad on there products. I am thinking about going with their brakes as a winter project. Bob

                  • #20
                    there instructions leave a few things out pm me after you buy them

                    Comment


                  • #21
                    Originally posted by Corley View Post
                    Didn't try that specific kit, but I did install S-10 disk brakes on the front of my CCPU, along with Camero rear drums. These disks are on the model A front spindles, which most people think are too weak, but have worked out great. It stops on a dime, with little pedal pressure. I used the S-10 master, with no booster. Couldn't be happier, in fact I am plannng to do the same thing on Elvira when I go to an OD and open driveline on her.
                    Corley, I realize this post is a few years old but I was wondering if it was possible to learn more about your S-10 brake conversion. Thankyou.

                    Comment


                    • #22
                      Sure, I used some weld on caliper adaptors from Speedway Motors, but I did not weld them on, I cut off the excess material and bolted them onto the model A spindles using the old backing plate holes. Of course these adaptors have to be spaced properly for the calipers to fit over the rotors. Measure once, cut and drill twice, right? The rotors are attached by using bearings that have the spindle diameter inside and the S10 diameter outside. I recently did the fronts on Elvira, and I'm using the model A inner rollers, with the S10 cones in a trial. They are not an exact fit, but close enough that I think they should work. The model A spindle is longer than the S10 spindle, and a spacer is used behind the inner bearing to center the rotor in the caliper. This leaves us with a seal problem on the inner bearing, and for that, I kept the model A grease retainer, and cut a couple circles of 1/2" felt that rubs against the back of the rotor hub and acts as a seal. Not the best, but it works. The model A spindle, being longer than the S10s spindle, sticks out too far to allow a dust cap be installed, so I brazed half of a S10 cap to some after market boat trailer cap to make longer dust caps.

                      I mounted the calipers facing forward to avoid interference with other things, but this pointed the banjo on the hose right at the king pin. On the CCPU, I used brake hoses with a right angle banjo. On Elvira, I cut a new guide notch into the calipers pointing the stock S10 hose inward. On the CCPU, I used the S10 master cylinder, on Elvira I used a master cylinder from a Plymouth Breeze. Keep in mind some fitting are metric, some not, so you will want to make up your own lines with the proper ends. Use only double flares on brakes! On the CCPU, I wound up needing an equalizing (proportioning) valve as the rear wheels would tend to slide in a panic stop. I have yet to drive Elvira since the conversion.

                      It is just "parts", and "parts is parts", right?
                      CB the Wonderful

                      Comment


                      • #23
                        For my Model A I am using original '42-'48 brakes on '37-'41 spindles with '40 hubs. I have just bought a set of Boling Brothers replacement drums. New shoes came from California Vintage Ford. My car had juice brakes when I bought it but they were pretty beat. A real Ford master cylinder is bolted on to the front of the center cross member on the passenger side. The original mechanical brake cross shaft actuates it.
                        http://www.bolingbrothers.com/

                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                        • #24
                          You must arc those shoes to the drums (a must) in calif dont know anyone that will do that.

                          Comment


                          • #25
                            set your arm back at least at 11:00 (looks about straight up.)

                            Comment

                            Related Topics

                            Collapse

                            • Tom Rode
                              Brakes
                              by Tom Rode
                              OK up to date on most items I wanted to address on the 29 Roadster I bought. Next item to look into is brakes. Mine are, as mentioned by someone here, more suggestion than command. However, having never driven a model A before I have no frame of reference. I know it should not stop like a modern car, but this car is very hard to bring to a stop over 25 MPH. Large amount of pedal pressure yields minimal...
                              12-02-2019, 01:14 PM
                            • bosticjb
                              BAD BRAKES
                              by bosticjb
                              Relined my brake shoes with new lining & had the drums turned and trued and now I don't have the braking power I had before , have put sevral miles and two adjustment but still very weak braking power,, any suggestions ?
                              07-08-2019, 07:52 PM
                            • Jack Sparks
                              1936 brakes
                              by Jack Sparks
                              I am the new and very,very proud owner of a 1936 Ford 5 window coupe. The car has been built as a street rod with newer v8 and automatic. Car has disc brakes on the front and drums on the rear with 8" Ford rear axle, utilizing a dual master cylinder. My question is: What can I do to improve the stopping power of the brakes? When bleeding the system, it seems that none of the bleeders have...
                              08-20-2017, 03:43 PM
                            • Doctor J
                              Front end/brake problems
                              by Doctor J
                              My 1930 Town sedan was parked for over 9 months. When I got it out to drive, it started right up, but the front end shuttered every time the brakes were applied. I thought some rust had built up. Drove it around for a while, gently riding the brakes and it seemed better. But going down a real steep hill, I applied the brakes and the whole car jumped to the right every time the brakes were applied....
                              08-01-2018, 04:29 PM
                            • 1930 Closed Cab PU
                              Another brake thread
                              by 1930 Closed Cab PU
                              Dropped my pickup off locally for them to look at my brakes. They are not Model A knowledgeable, but do work on a lot of 40s/50s/60s foreign/commercial vehicles. Also dropped off the Red Book, the adjuster wrench, Mitchel puller, and Mitch's adjustment procedure.

                              Issue I am having - Does not pull, but do not think it had good stopping ability, and the brakes made a noise. Best description...
                              06-18-2020, 09:00 AM
                            • DaWizard
                              BAD BRAKE JOB!!
                              by DaWizard
                              Last Wednesday I got a cute little '30 coupe that came from Vegas area a few months ago that the owner was complaining about the lack of brakes and running badly and wanted to get it fixed. So, while taking off the brakes to send to Randy Gross to have him do his magic I noticed something strange.

                              The right side brake rods were all the correct length, but the left side had the correct
                              ...
                              You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                              This gallery has 3 photos.
                              07-12-2019, 10:18 PM
                            • 1930 Closed Cab PU
                              Brake Backing Plate Assembly 101
                              by 1930 Closed Cab PU
                              Found this on UTube. For me an excellent tutorial about brakes and how they work, things to look for if repair/rebuilding. Is really good at showing how the guts work.

                              Does not discuss adjustments, drums, champher linings, arcing linings, or the rest of the brake system. But for a quick idea of the parts and how they work is great for the uneducated like myself.

                              One question...
                              03-15-2020, 11:46 AM
                            • 1930 Closed Cab PU
                              Brake Squeal
                              by 1930 Closed Cab PU
                              Last winter had my truck worked on including the Brakes. New shoes/riveted woven linings, converted to cast hubs. Linings arced and chamfered. Brakes were not restored, shop said there was a little wear on some of the other parts, but are good. Did not have restored, ran out of cash.

                              Slight occassional squealing especially when braking from slower speeds just before complete stopping,...
                              08-22-2019, 05:53 PM
                            • copgib
                              Question for members who have juice brakes
                              by copgib
                              My question is: How do you have your emergency brake setup if you have hydraulic brakes all around?
                              02-15-2018, 07:53 PM
                            • BTERRY1
                              Brake drum temperature
                              by BTERRY1
                              Tried searching, but maybe not well enough 😊. I carry an infrared heat gun with me. After driving a while with minimal braking, what temperature on the drums should I expect to see? Also, what’s the max after some harder braking....
                              04-04-2021, 08:23 AM
                            Working...
                            X