Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Paint problems

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Paint problems

    This is about my newest Mod A, the 29 blind back. The car was restored about 30 or so years ago and the paint's stood up well. However, the paint is a lacquer. The problem is that the hood was replaced with a Non Briggs hood without the body lines. I found a hood with the body lines and am now trying to match the color (Rock Moss Green I think) Anyway it's a forest green with a lot of blue in it. Much darker than Turquoise. So, I went to my local paint supplier (Nason) and he mixed up a qt of green. It looked great when I compared it to the small part and the mixing stick. But spray the hood and not so good. So I took the door off and brought it to him and he "Matched" to that. Well, Not really! It's still too green. Actually, it's only close. Yeah, he had a camera, But he admitted it was about 12 years old and the newer ones were much better. Also, I was told that the surface must be dead flat, not curved or it reflects the light differently which Mod. A doors are not. Whatever!

    1 Has anyone else had this problem, and what did you do about it? Short of repainting the whole car!
    2 Is it doable with Nason paint? I have about $100 into this already and I'd rather not waste it. Or should I just scrap it ( 1qt and a pint) and move on to another brand of paint, say PPG. Another dealer who can get it right.
    3 Any good suggestions would be very welcome.
    Terry

  • #2
    sometimes I have had to mix up some paint, spray it out or put some on a spray out card, dry it gently with a heat gun then compare it to the original paint - in the sun and different lighting- then change the mix a little. When at the paint store IF you have a good employee who is willing to help you they can do this with you there and work out a better match. It takes time and sometimes several attempts to get a good match.
    The camera matching systems 90% will get you close but you still have to change the mix up a bit to get close or spot on depending on how much time you want to put into it.

    The other option is to get a really close match and blend it into the adjacent panels with slight spray and over spray, lightly buff until it blends. Depending on the color it can work well - or not.

    If this was easy everyone would be doing it....

    Others may have a better idea, this is just some of the options I have used.
    Last edited by rkmiller; 12-17-2020, 04:40 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Do you think a place with a more modern scanner would be better?
      3 ~ Tudor's
      Henry Ford said
      "It's all nuts and bolts"


      Mitch's Auto Service ctr

      Comment


      • #4
        Terry,

        Nason paint is not a top of the line DuPont product, intended mainly for those doing inexpensive over all paint jobs not requiring an exact match. Basically the Nason line has fewer tints to work with so it's not likely to provide a perfect color match.

        Scanning the bottom half of a Model A door should not be a problem after it has been polished.

        Understand a scan is designed to give a close match which is expected to be either tinted to match or blended into the next panel.

        Manage your expectations....you are attempting to match an ancient paint with modern tints, not easy.

        Lastly ask who supplies higher end body shops in your area, ones refinishing Porsches & Mercedes. They might have a suggestion who next to talk with.

        Good luck, jb

        Comment


        • #5
          You could go back to Nason and have them add pigments to get the color closer ? Use the same salesman!

          Comment


          • #6
            Lacquer is very hard to match, to little or to much changes the color.

            Comment


            • #7
              First, is your new paint nitro or acrylic lacquer ? Not sure what's available in your county VOC wise. If lacquer, TCP Global in S. Ca. is one of the better and scarce places to match lacquer (by hand and scanner) and familiar with the original Model A codes , though a part should be sent to them for the best results, perhaps one of the older hood side panels..You can also get StewMac tinting colorants for lacquer and try it your self. Cutting and polishing can change the hue on some paints.
              Last edited by plyfor; 12-17-2020, 06:03 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                To my knowledge there is no major US paint manufacturer making lacquer for the wide scale sale in the automotive refinishing business. The Feds out lawed lacquer paint...AND most significantly the Feds long ago started outlawing certain lacquer 'oxide' tints, without which it's impossible to match a color from a formula that requires them.

                The major paint manufactures saw this coming and sold off all their lacquer inventory over seas. This is the source for TCP Global and other small hobbyist venders. While they can offer 'Model A lacquer' colors, without those long ago outlawed tints, it ain't going to match.

                Nason is not a lacquer but rather either a low end acrylic enamel or urathane depending on how it is created. It is a fine product for it's price but if you want / need more, you are going to have to spend more.

                Comment


                • #9
                  OK I'll try to answer every body. Yes, I think a more modern camera would help. I'm not sure that it would help. But I can't help thinking that it might.
                  I realize that Nason is a lower end product and that DuPont is now out of the paint business, but that's what the dealer trades in. Except for some European stuff which I never heard of. They say it's great, but who knows?
                  Yes, I'm learning that lacquer is hard to match. I don't get it! Why should lacquer not match? With all the tints, formulas, cameras, etc. I should think that there's nothing they can't match.
                  I"M not using Lacquer. I'm trying to match a lacquer paint. Geesss.... you would think that it's not such a big deal! But it's becoming a big deal.
                  Nason is an acrylic enamel! Now, is it compatible with other acrylic enamels? Is it compatible with some others, but not all? If so, which ones? I know you're not supposed to mix brands and types, buy what else is there if their tints just don't work?
                  Terry
                  Last edited by Terry, NJ; 12-17-2020, 08:36 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Mixing different brands of materials ?? How many land mines do you want to step on ?

                    Option 1. Buy some brushable cheap enamel and give your car an authentic depression era paint job.

                    Option 2. You are only 3 quarts away from repainting the entire car in Nason. (Cheap paint doesn't cover well either.)

                    Option 3. A one time indulgence in correct (expensive) paint and refinish the hood.




                    THE FIRST QUESTION TO ASK THE SELLER BEFORE YOU FALL IN LOVE

                    "Do you have any touch paint with the car, even if it is dried out but in the original can with the original a label ?"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=JB-OB;n287210]Mixing different brands of materials ?? How many land mines do you want to step on ?


                      Option 2. You are only 3 quarts away from repainting the entire car in Nason. (Cheap paint doesn't cover well either.)

                      Land mines? Did someone say land mines? Oh boy! Am I! My friend says that too. "Wait till spring and we'll paint the whole car!' IF, I have to, maybe I will! But I don't want to have to! I took the hood and a door back to the vendor today. His guy was running things, he's at home enjoying his bout with the Chinese virus, he's due back Monday. So it'll be a long weekend! Funny, we put the side panel next to the hood in the shade. Almost perfect match! Then we moved it to the sunlight, whole different color! No match at all. Go figure. I got lot to learn about paint!
                      Terry


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        And some people don't want to be satisfied.

                        Proud, fussy owner of a black Firebird sought out a particular body shop to do the repair. The black looked great inside the shop & outside in the sun light. The owner came back complaining the color was off because under the neon lights of a gas station he could see a difference............

                        How is that "I am Defiant !" about auto paint working out ???

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A couple of tips.

                          Paint dries "2 shades" darker.

                          Don't ask what specification a shade is, but it will be darker on the job than in the can.

                          Reds and greens are a colour matchers best friend.

                          Red will kill green and green will kill red.

                          So if you have a red/pink tinge , add a few drops of green, and if you have a greenish tinge, add a few drops of red.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JB-OB View Post
                            And some people don't want to be satisfied.

                            Proud, fussy owner of a black Firebird sought out a particular body shop to do the repair. The black looked great inside the shop & outside in the sun light. The owner came back complaining the color was off because under the neon lights of a gas station he could see a difference............

                            How is that "I am Defiant !" about auto paint working out ???
                            Hey, I'm not that bad! If this looked great in the shop and outside in the sun, I'd be celebrating! If this looked good in the sun, I'd be happy. I understand you rarely if ever get a perfect match. If I got those two out of three, I'd consider it a win! Those neon lights can really show it up. You can even see differences in factory paint on the fenders and the hood. But move it out of the lights....... I wish my eyes were color sensitive enough to say "oh all that needs is a quarter teaspoon of blue or black or red or who knows what color and it will be fine". I believe such people exist, but I'm not one of them! About the "I am defiant!" I still maintain that the auto paint companies are overcharging us. But what to do about it? The problem is insurance! Someone else seemingly is paying the bill so who cares what it costs. In the end we all pay the bills! It is the "collectivization" of the responsibility and it's a real PITA. So this drives the price of paint and other supplies up to ridiculous levels because, after all, the insurance company is paying it. We, the regular retail customers are the collateral damage in this scenario. Actually, after much thought about this, I came to the conclusion that us, finding alternative paints would only drive the price higher for the collision business. And it's too high now! How do we effectively "Go on strike" against "Big Paint"? I don't know! But I'm sure it can be done!
                            Oh and BTW. In my last post, I mentioned that my vendor was selling some European paint. I got the name and it's ROBERLO French , German, Swiss? I don't know, look it up. I have never heard of it before.
                            Terry

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              One minor correction, the auto insurance companies collect $$ from you to pay claims against them.

                              Please read a label on an automotive paint can......'to be used only by trained professionals'. What ever you think of your self, it ain't you. A professional body repair shop must have a licensed spray booth with a fire suppression system. Bet you ain't got one of them in the car port. The booth is required not to produce a dust free finish but rather prevent paint fumes entering the atmosphere. Wanna meet 5 or 6 interesting Federal types on a Saturday afternoon ? Try painting your car in the driveway.

                              Do you know body shops must have an expensive contract & insurance to legally dispose of their waste thinners & paint ? Nope, the Feds don't look kindly on you killing the weeds along the property line with your waste either.

                              The same Feds that made paint expensive are the same Feds that priced us out of affordable nickel
                              & chrome plating.

                              Sooner or later, Feds will also decide one day that the sky is falling and to preserve the universe 'we' must pay $19.95 a gallon for gas.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Well said everyone! I could not agree more!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Mitch is censoring my posts because my frustration allows, Allows? Hell, commands me to scream over this stuff! Experience has shown me that if someone is feeding you a snerd sandwich and you don't like it, you better say something about it. Don't be a hero! And I do! We are getting screwed by the paint companies and that's that! Stoicism gets you nothing but higher prices. That's all I'll say about it.
                                  Terry

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Well, Today I picked up the paint. This is my last try at matching the paint! I'm gonna shoot it come what may. The guy at paint place said this was the best he could do. The problem is that it's old lacquer's surface because of the cracking, his camera gave a result of " Couldn't be Matched". I don't know! Does it sound right to anyone else? I'm sure he went way out of his way for me and I tried to buy coffee for the guys, but he wouldn't take it. So give me some ideas about what's a compatible paint or a tint with Nason. Merry Christmas!
                                    Terry

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Terry, NJ View Post
                                      Mitch is censoring my posts
                                      Not on this thread, but I did move it to the body shop forum. We do remove posts when they are political

                                      Merry Christmas my friend
                                      3 ~ Tudor's
                                      Henry Ford said
                                      "It's all nuts and bolts"


                                      Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Terry,

                                        Would they do any hand tinting - what I call it- where they get close and then tint, at least dab some on a card, dry it lightly and then compare it. then re-tint until it gets very close. Sometimes your eyes get glazed over when doing this after a while and I have to step away for a little bit to "readjust" my retinas for color tones. It is time consuming and they may not have the time.

                                        I don't know the entire condition of your car but maybe repaint the entire outside with the very close color this spring? I know that once you start digging into a project then you find other things that need to be done. I have done this a few times and the next thing I know the entire vehicle is apart for a major rebuild.

                                        Self restraint is sometimes the key - you have to think about resale vs sentimentality vs I have this overwhelming urge to do a good job the first time - something I cannot say I have not done numerous times.

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Can you post a pic of the colour you want and a pic of your paint on a piece of metal or flat stick and dry.

                                          Is rock moss green the colour most early pickups are?

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by rkmiller View Post
                                            Terry,

                                            Would they do any hand tinting - what I call it- where they get close and then tint, at least dab some on a card, dry it lightly and then compare it. then re-tint until it gets very close. Sometimes your eyes get glazed over when doing this after a while and I have to step away for a little bit to "readjust" my retinas for color tones. It is time consuming and they may not have the time.

                                            I don't know the entire condition of your car but maybe repaint the entire outside with the very close color this spring? I know that once you start digging into a project then you find other things that need to be done. I have done this a few times and the next thing I know the entire vehicle is apart for a major rebuild.

                                            Self restraint is sometimes the key - you have to think about resale vs sentimentality vs I have this overwhelming urge to do a good job the first time - something I cannot say I have not done numerous times.
                                            His exact words were; "When I tinted it blue, the blue tint overwhelmed the green and I had to tint it green again!" I don't know much about paint (But I'm learning) Does this seem plausible to anyone? I will probably have to repaint the car eventually , but I wanted to get it looking somewhat respectable and deal with it later. And that's what I'm gonna do. So I'm hoping someone one this site will know how to give a very slight blue tint to my mostly green Nason paint. If not, I'm going to paint it with what I have and like I say, repaint the whole thing later.
                                            Terry

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              Originally posted by pooch View Post
                                              Can you post a pic of the colour you want and a pic of your paint on a piece of metal or flat stick and dry.

                                              Is rock moss green the colour most early pickups are?
                                              No, I wish I could! I mean that. I really like taking and posting pictures, But my camera (Kodak) seems to be no longer compatible with this computer (Apple PC ). Somebody tell me how to make it work and i'll post pics again. I'm going to write up the whole sequence on events of how and what caused this in hope that someone can explain what I have to do to fix it. I forgot to give you an answer to your question! I' don't know much about Mod A pickups, but I think most of them were French Gray, Maybe not. I just checked George De Angelis' "The Ford Mod A As Henry Built It. On Page 176 it says there were 38 standard colors available on 30 31 models, plus Rock Moss Green, and a few other colors. To tell the truth,There are at least 3 or 4 greens. Rock Moss, Vagabond, valley Green, Highland Green, and the two that are used together, Elkpoint Green and Kewanee Green. I don't know what I have!
                                              Terry
                                              Last edited by Terry, NJ; 12-23-2020, 08:35 PM.

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Terry,

                                                Just some random thoughts....

                                                If they were tinting a small quantity - quart or spray can size - it doesn't take much at all to over tint one color.

                                                I would say if you are close you could over spray the adjacent panels (mask off the panel a few inches or more depending on how much blending you want to do. leave a pouch on the over spray area so that some gets directly on the panel and then some gets over sprayed. Then lightly sand or buff or both to get the blending. That is one way of doing it, it depends on how large the over spray area needs to be.

                                                If the colors don''t match enough to blend with over spray you may be better off to spend time this winter (probably not going to drive in the snow in PA) to sand and prep the rest of the car for a paint job and do it this spring or have a shop do it. Then you would be ready for the driving season.

                                                I really like your tenacity and perseverance... That is what it takes to finish a project car and not give up when things get overwhelming.

                                                Take it from someone who has whipped a few dead horses myself!

                                                Merry Christmas!

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  Terry you may not want to hear this, but its time to try another avenue. Take a sample panel over to Flannery and see what they can do
                                                  https://www.flanneryautomotive.com
                                                  3 ~ Tudor's
                                                  Henry Ford said
                                                  "It's all nuts and bolts"


                                                  Mitch's Auto Service ctr

                                                  Comment

                                                  Related Topics

                                                  Collapse

                                                  • Terry, NJ
                                                    Paint matching problem
                                                    by Terry, NJ
                                                    As some of you know, I recently bought a 29 Blindback. What I may or not told anyone is it has the wrong hood (The hood I got with it was the wrong color too). I acquired the correct hood, did the necessary body work, primed the pieces, I bought, what I thought was the correct paint for it, And it's NOT! It's close, but no cigar. It's a Nason acrylic enamel and it was about $53 @ qt. The car's not...
                                                    11-10-2020, 08:36 PM
                                                  • BillLee/Chandler, TX
                                                    Too much catalyst
                                                    by BillLee/Chandler, TX
                                                    What happens if you use too much catalyst when preparing some urethane paint? How does the paint react? How does it spray? Flow out?
                                                    09-19-2018, 12:45 PM
                                                  • Bobm90
                                                    Paint in "Rattle Cans"
                                                    by Bobm90
                                                    I have always used paint in so-called rattle cans whenever painting metal objects was desired due mostly to the fact I never had a desire to own paint spraying equipment or had something large enough to require it, also I have - NO SKILLS. Although many people use good old Rustoleum I have never been a fan because it takes forever to dry to the touch, always seems soft unless it drys for days, scrapes...
                                                    02-27-2020, 09:32 AM
                                                  • DaWizard
                                                    Now that we have the paint figured out...
                                                    by DaWizard
                                                    I have read the entire 32 posts on paint and what to use and I have a nagging question.

                                                    What to use to keep the paint shiny and clean that will withstand mother nature. IF I paint my car, or have it done, in the near future it will still be stored outdoors in all the Southern Califlower elements, so I need to know, after I've spent these thousands of dollar on paint, what to use to keep
                                                    ...
                                                    12-02-2018, 07:01 PM
                                                  • Terry, NJ
                                                    I am Defiant! (auto paint)
                                                    by Terry, NJ
                                                    As the title says, I am defiant over the exorbitantly high cost of auto paint! I'm considering using Rustoleum (or any other good quality paint) for all my projects from now on. High build primers (PPG) running at $148 and $154 (with hardener), I've had it! I recall buying DuPont Centari for $15 a qt. So I'm on a search for a somewhat High (?) quality, long lasting paint at a price I can live with....
                                                    02-26-2020, 01:45 PM
                                                  • Terry, NJ
                                                    HELP! Anybody got an old gallon or two........
                                                    by Terry, NJ
                                                    I'm getting desperate! Anybody got an old, still usable, gallon or two of vagabond bond green paint? I like the color and I can't find anyone who knows how to mix it. There his nothing like it going on modern cars so I can't even cheat and use a contemporary color that's close. Have had a few paint vendors try to match it. Even took the door off and gave it to the mixer/vendor and it didn't work....
                                                    03-17-2021, 03:56 PM
                                                  • MickyDC
                                                    Paint chip chart
                                                    by MickyDC
                                                    Where can you get a paint chip chart for the 1928-1930 Model A Roadster....
                                                    05-04-2021, 05:06 PM
                                                  • wrndln
                                                    Another couple paint questions
                                                    by wrndln
                                                    I need to touch up a few very small flaws in my front fenders. These are not the colorsanding break thru's I recently posted here on VFF. These are about the size of a straight pin's head. The fender are painted with PPG Concept 9300 black. I have the same 9300 black paint I am going to use to touch up the fenders. My question is: Will the paint I use to touch up the very small flaws work OK...
                                                    09-29-2019, 05:55 PM
                                                  • Jpc67
                                                    Paint Color? Sorry I hope this is not a too trivial
                                                    by Jpc67
                                                    Super thanks to everyone !! I’m now in the process of lubing and checking/replacing fluids. By the way assuming mine is paint correct....what is the color? A couple places I have looked are showing 2 different greens? Would like to get a little for touch up etc.. also are these Lacquer paints?
                                                    08-06-2020, 08:30 PM
                                                  • wrndln
                                                    Scuffing parts to repaint
                                                    by wrndln
                                                    I have some fenders and a splash apron I need to repaint, as I sanded through the PPG Concept black paint while colorsanding them. I know I screwed up by not putting enough paint near the edges were the break-thrus occurred. I don't need advice on this topic. Anyway, I have a couple boxes of 3M gray (ultra fine) Scotchbite pads. I was wonder if using the gray pads is a good idea for scuffing the...
                                                    06-23-2020, 01:12 PM
                                                  Working...
                                                  X